Sign in the new petition for Bring Back Janeway, please!

Discussion in 'Voyager' started by Kathryn J., Dec 25, 2011.

  1. RoJoHen

    RoJoHen Awesome Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2000
    Location:
    QC, IL, USA
    Let me rephrase. That's not how fiction should work. An author should have the right to do whatever he wants with the characters at his disposal (as long as the publisher agrees). Fans shouldn't have the power to change that.
     
  2. Brit

    Brit Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2008
    Location:
    Texas
    How do you manage that, writers write books, fans buy the books. If fans refuse to buy the books they don't want to read, and the publishers starts to lose money, then the publisher gets writers to write the books fans want. That is ultimate power and there is no way for you to make fans purchase what they don't want to read. No market, no books. That little utopia you think you want disappeared when publishers stopped being tax write offs and had to try to be profitable. It's all about money and has been for years.
     
  3. Syn.Sixx

    Syn.Sixx Ensign

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2011
    Location:
    Williamsburg VA
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2011
  4. Brit

    Brit Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2008
    Location:
    Texas
    Yes we want her protected because she is a trek character, we also want Picard, and everyone else we saw on the screen protected in exactly the same way. As unhappy as I am with Kathryn Janeway's death, I am just as unhappy with the way Trek lit has mutilated Ben Sisko's character.
     
  5. DigificWriter

    DigificWriter Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    May 20, 2001
    Location:
    West Haven, UT, USA
    I said this in the duplicate thread over in Trek Lit, but online petitions concerning fictional propertiesare rarely given any credence, and are even more rarely successful. The only two instances that I can think of in recent history where online petition campaigns were successful are the temporary renewals of Jericho and Pushing Daisies.

    If you're certain that there are 'countless successful efforts' out there to refute what myself and CoveSanta have said re: online petitions that concern fictional properties, you might want to try citing them specifically instead of making generic statements.

    BTW, it doesn't look like you saw what I posted in the thread in Trek Lit, so I'm going to reiterate part of what I said there:
    You can't beg people to support your cause.

    It doesn't matter how important you might think your cause is. People will support it - or ignore it - based on their own personal viewpoints/feelings, not because you went out and asked them to sign an online petition that will most likely have absolutely no effect whatsoever on the direction that the Voyager Relaunch novels go.

    If you guys want to waste your own time in what will more than likely turn out to be a futile effort, go right ahead, but don't expect to find much support from people who aren't already in your little 'circle'.
     
  6. RoJoHen

    RoJoHen Awesome Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2000
    Location:
    QC, IL, USA
    You're right, but somehow I don't think Janeway's absence is killing the series.
     
  7. DigificWriter

    DigificWriter Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    May 20, 2001
    Location:
    West Haven, UT, USA
    Your line of thinking only really works with tie-in fiction, and it only works if there's actually an issue with overall Voyager novel sales, which, as Therin pointed out to Lynx, there clearly isn't.

    As I said above, you and the people who share your viewpoints are free to waste your own time in what will more than likely prove to be a futile effort to force an unnecessary change simply because you think said change should be made, but don't expect others outside your 'circle' to support your cause.

    Regarding hostility towards you guys, it only comes when you try and act like your opinions are the only ones that matter, and when you try to 'force' those of us who don't share your viewpoints/opinions to support your cause by insinuating that, if we don't support your cause, we're not 'true' Janeway or Voyager fans.

    I posted in the last thread where this whole topic was breached, and you were one of the people I started arguing with on this very point, so it isn't like this whole issue of hostility is something that's taken you guys by surprise. If you don't want to be approached with hostility, don't come in trying to push your viewpoints on other people, especially people who don't share said viewpoints.
     
  8. Brit

    Brit Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2008
    Location:
    Texas
    The only thing to be proved is that there is a market for her return. The only thing we have to prove is that there are more fans that want to read about Kathryn Janeway than want Kathryn Janeway dead. Why don't you start a petition to keep her dead and see how many votes you get.
     
  9. Blacglac

    Blacglac Cadet Newbie

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2011
    Those who regularly enjoy Star Trek (TV series or books) are already picked out and ridiculed by many people who can't stand the whole franchise. We face opposition from all sides because we are 'Trekkers', we worship at the altar of Gene Roddenberry. We all claim to be forward thinking, open-minded people, and yet we can't even disagree in a civil and mature manner???
    It doesn't matter that Janeway is a fictional character, she is still important to her fans, why should they be ridiculed for showing that support?
    Live and let live. Think not of what divides us, whether that be which series is better or which characters are loved the most. But of what joins us together under the banner of Star Trek: A good story, human compassion and all those other lessons that those who grew up watching Star Trek show on a daily basis.
    In-fighting just lends those who hate Star Trek more ammunition to aim at us all!

    Besides, it's not like we're asking for her to come back immediately, just bring her back eventually. Don't hang a lantern on her story and forget about her. Could you do that to Picard? Or Sisko? Or Kirk? Or any other character from Star Trek???

    If you don't want to sign the petition, then don't. No-one is making you, or trying to make you.
    All we are doing is trying to spread the message in as many places as possible, so that those that would like to see Janeway return to the series can get involved with others who share that viewpoint. This isn't about forcing our opinion down your throat, or discrediting it, this is about trying to bring back a character that we all liked.
    If that displeases you, then by all means: Leave.
    Not all of us boycott the books, I still buy them and enjoyed them. I have no complaints about the characters brought into the Voyager storyline, I just find the books to be missing something, and that something is Janeway.
    If that upsets you then I'll say this: I grew up watching Voyager, and I find myself missing Janeway (as an Admiral or Captain or just a guiding force). The crew in the books has had a while to grieve for her, but they can't get her back. Why should her fans not be allowed the same right?
     
  10. Violet.Phoenix

    Violet.Phoenix Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2011
    Location:
    A distant corner of the Zeta Quadrant...
    I'd just like to say that I don't want to argue. I just feel like we all should be able to state our opinions but not be bashed for it. We're all here because we like Star Trek, not to pinpoint flaws and argue over them. Some people liked Janeway, some didn't and I'm okay with that. Some of us want her back in the books, some don't. We all have our causes, and if we choose to support them, then that's our choice.
     
  11. Syn.Sixx

    Syn.Sixx Ensign

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2011
    Location:
    Williamsburg VA

    DigificWriter, I've sent many posts here where I've said quite clearly that others are allowed to not like Voyager. You don't have to like Janeway. You don't have to agree with how we feel. That's not an issue at all for me and I've said it enough already to show the truth in that statement.

    You (and anyone else) are allowed to have your own viewpoint that doesn't match ours.

    In general I've been considerably more respectful of that other viewpoint while standing firm to my own. I can't and won't speak for the actions of others in the past, present or future who voice their opinions on the matter. However, if someone is rude I am also quite willing and able to address that.

    It's amazing how at so many trek sites, people are so hostile and outright mean to one another for a different view point. I have admitted freely that Voyager had flaws both in its premise and in its characters however, those flaws were due to the writing and direction given by whoever happened to be in control of the franchise at that point. Heck even at the "Bring Back Janeway" facebook page, I posted a link to an article at GiantFreakingRobot dot come which was really not very pro-Voyager or even pro-Janeway but which I still think was kind of funny in it's message.

    If you want to read it.. it's right here:

    http://www.giantfreakinrobot.com/television/6-reasons-star-trek-voyager-worked.html

    I quite honestly thought some of what they said was hilarious.


    People talk about Janeway's actions but really, the problem there is deeper in that someone in control of the series approved it.

    Voyager wasn't perfect.

    Janeway wasn't perfect.

    Life itself, isn't perfect. Yes there are things I can and do support which make more of a world impact (Recycling efforts, Autism Awareness as I have 2 autistic nephews who I love dearly, just to name two).

    This is something that's just a little fun for me. I loved Voyager and I loved Kathryn Janeway because of those flaws.

    I hope that through all of this that we'll accomplish our goal and see some new Voyager based novels with Janeway back.


    Is it so terribly difficult to just say that you don't agree without having to be quite so hostile about it?
     
  12. DigificWriter

    DigificWriter Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    May 20, 2001
    Location:
    West Haven, UT, USA
    Even if it wasn't your intent, the way you chose to broach this subject - a petition for the 'Bring Back Janeway' cause - was very confrontational, especially given how volatile previous instances where this topic has been broached have been.

    If all you were trying to do was 'get the word out' about the petition's existence, it would have helped immensely if the title of this thread wasn't 'Sign in the new petition for Bring Back Janeway, please', and if your original post hadn't contained as justification for the petition's existence a host of false ideas as to why you guys think this whole issue is a cause worth championing.
     
  13. Gotham Central

    Gotham Central Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    May 15, 2001
    Location:
    Chicago, IL
    Of course people are entitled to their own opinions. However they are not entitled to their own facts. One of the things that bugs me big time is this constant whining that Janeway was somehow treated unfairly by being killed off. Worse than that is the notion that she is being treated differently than the male characters. Yet when its pointed out that she is NOT being treated differently there is silence. These people keep saying again and again that the men get resurrected but not the women but ignore that the men have NOT be resurrected. In fact only one character in Trek history has ever been formally dead and brought back to life. That was Spock. Everyone else that has died has stayed dead. Thus demanding that Janeway stay dead is not some conspiracy to keep women down.
     
  14. Blacglac

    Blacglac Cadet Newbie

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2011
    And how else do you let folks know what they're going to get?
    Also, given the title and your apparent dis-like bordering on patronising attitude for those who want it to succeed:
    Why did you open the thread? Seems as if you opened just to spout off about how everyone who wants Janeway back is wrong and you are right in thinking she's better off gone...
    Bit arrogant and attention seeking, no?
     
  15. Gotham Central

    Gotham Central Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    May 15, 2001
    Location:
    Chicago, IL
     
  16. Syn.Sixx

    Syn.Sixx Ensign

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2011
    Location:
    Williamsburg VA
    So.. let me just get this in my head...

    Because I was polite, and added the world "please" to the title .. you want to twist that action into some sort of conspiracy where it's confrontational?

    Do you really even believe in the hooey that you're trying to sell me?

    It was a simple courtesy, adding a 'please' to the title rather than just a statement or a demand.

    You make me laugh really. You're so determined to degrade me and everyone else who supports returning Janeway in the books by any means possible, you have even stooped to making that absurd accusation.

    Really. You're proving my point for me better than anything else I could have said myself!
     
  17. Gotham Central

    Gotham Central Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    May 15, 2001
    Location:
    Chicago, IL
    Actually some people are demanding that she be resurrected immediately. In fact, some of the people here have been demanding it since it happened.

    I've said before that I would have no objection to them writing stories about Janeway's adventures set prior to her death (say during the journey across the Delta Quadrant). But she should NOT be brought back from the dead. Like Kirk, tell stories set during her lifetime, but don't resurrect her for stories set in the 2380s.
     
  18. DS9forever

    DS9forever Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2007
    It would be a bit stupid to have adventures aboard the Voyager and then to cut back to Admiral Janeway back on Earth. Janeway died a hero; her story is over.
     
  19. DigificWriter

    DigificWriter Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    May 20, 2001
    Location:
    West Haven, UT, USA
    First of all, I edited the comment you quoted out of my last post because I realized that it was better served for me to respond to Syx than to you, since you both more or less brought up the same issue.

    Second, I have never once said or indicated that I think that Janeway is better off gone. I am an admitted Kathryn Janeway fan, but I'm not one of those people who thinks that she absolutely has to be involved in Voyager stories in order for those stories to actually qualify AS Voyager stories, or for those stories to be of any worth.

    In previous instances where this topic has been broached here, I - and others who disagree with the sentiment expressed by you, Syx, Brit, Lynx, and others - have been attacked for not being in 'lockstep' with said sentiment, and, as I said to Syx in the edit to my previous post, the manner in which the subject was broached this time around was very confrontational, even if it wasn't intended to be.

    Now, even though I edited the comment you quoted out of my last post, I nevertheless stand by the idea that everything you said is BS because it is not supported by the ways in which you and/or others have broached this subject in the past, nor is it supported by the way in which Syx broached the subject this time around.

    If you don't want to be responded to with confrontation, don't come in here behaving in a confrontational fashion, intentionally or otherwise, particularly as it concerns this particular issue/topic.

    I came into this thread in the first place because of the duplicate thread that was posted in the Trek Lit forum, and only initially posted in this iteration of it in response to what I saw as blatant examples of the condescension and arrogance that has been previously demonstrated by individuals who champion the 'Bring Back Janeway' cause towards individuals who do not think said cause is actually something that needs to be championed.
     
  20. Therin of Andor

    Therin of Andor Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2004
    Location:
    New Therin Park, Andor (via Australia)
    And Kirsten Beyer's VOY novels are selling extremely well. More people reading VOY fiction than when the TV series was airing, it would seem.

    It was a canonical DS9 script that had The Prophets proclaim that if Sisko married Kassidy, he would "know only sorrow". He went ahead and married her.

    How has Sisko's character been unfairly mutilated by the novels that goes against canon?