Should they have deleted this scene?

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies XI+' started by sj4iy, May 23, 2013.

  1. sj4iy

    sj4iy Commander Red Shirt

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    According to JJ Abrams, there was a shower scene involving Benedict Cumberbatch that was edited out of the final cut of the movie. Considering the claims of misogyny this movie is getting for the 2 second clip of Alice Eve in her underwear, should this scene have stayed in the movie?

    [YT]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7LXKjjS-eZI[/YT]

    Opinions below.
     
  2. ManOnTheWave

    ManOnTheWave Vice Admiral Admiral

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    It was probably cut for no reason other than time and pacing. I'm glad the contrived controversy gave JJ & Co a reason to use the footage. Now poor Benedict Cumberbatch has something to show for all of his work outs and "immoral" consumption of four thousand calories a day, and the Cumberfans have candy for their eyes.
     
  3. sj4iy

    sj4iy Commander Red Shirt

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    Probably true, but it may have tilted the argument back to "everyone gets equally exposed" like he said. I definitely wouldn't have minded it, though- but then again, I didn't mind Alice Eve.
     
  4. Greg Cox

    Greg Cox Admiral Premium Member

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    But then fans would have argued for years about whether Cumberbatch's chest was real! :)
     
  5. Awesome Possum

    Awesome Possum Rated Awesome By 9 out of 10 Awesome Experts Moderator

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    How is the underwear scene a controversy? Movies have shown women and men in their underwear since shortly after they were invented.
     
  6. sj4iy

    sj4iy Commander Red Shirt

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    Honestly, I don't know, but some people have taken issue with it (women's rights and strange stuff like that).
     
  7. CorporalClegg

    CorporalClegg Admiral Admiral

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    I'd watch.
     
  8. Cid Highwind

    Cid Highwind Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Not sure why "people" did what they did, but I have taken issue with that scene not because of "women's rights and strange stuff" (which, BTW, is itself a very strange phrasing), but because it was written badly.
     
  9. sj4iy

    sj4iy Commander Red Shirt

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    I have no problem with that explanation :)
     
  10. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Admiral Admiral

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    I'm not surprised the Cumberbatch shower scene was deleted. It revealed too much about Cumberbatch...
     
  11. TheCutestofBorg

    TheCutestofBorg Lieutenant Junior Grade

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    Conan is right, he did not look like he was enjoying that shower. In fact, it almost looked like he was dropping a deuce.
     
  12. Matt S

    Matt S Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    Goddamn, what has happened to this world? People that uptight about an underwear scene....this political correctness makes me annoyed
     
  13. Phily B

    Phily B Commodore Commodore

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    :rofl:

    It did look a little weird how the water is dropping from him. Damn Benny is ripped though, he doesn't look it in clothing.
     
  14. Kevman7987

    Kevman7987 Captain Captain

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    This season on Sherlock; Sherlock works out until he is ripped and crushes all the bad guys' skulls! Watson uses his One Ring to turn invisible!"
     
  15. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Admiral Admiral

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    This post reminds me of an interview with Steven Moffat in spring 2012. When asked if there was any news about Sherlock, Moffat reponded "Sherlock's fighting Captain Kirk and Watson's helping out Gandalf."
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2013
  16. HaventGotALife

    HaventGotALife Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    And that should've been deleted. If that's all that's missing, if there's no reveal, if there's nothing being done here with Khan that isn't done with every other scene, then it makes no sense and is wasted. I wish the Eve scene had been deleted for similar concerns.
     
  17. sj4iy

    sj4iy Commander Red Shirt

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    Well, this winter Sherlock and Watson will fight...twice ;)
     
  18. Coloratura

    Coloratura Snuggle Princess Premium Member

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    I've memorized the video.
     
  19. Locutus of Bored

    Locutus of Bored The Norf Remembers Moderator

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    Well, we don't know the context for the scene. Maybe it conveys that he's under stress because he's concerned about his people and humanizes him a bit more. Maybe it shows that he's tired and not as invincible as he seems at first glance. Just because it seems pointless without seeing precisely where it fits in the narrative doesn't mean it actually is.

    Likewise, apart from obviously being there for titillation too, the Carol Marcus underwear scene did serve a purpose. Throughout the preceding parts of the film, we see Kirk being confident to the point of arrogance and extremely flirty with women. He was having a meaningless one night stand with the cat babes, he gave F-Me glances to the women at Starfleet HQ and the bar, and he was making juvenile comments about Carol's appearance when she boarded the shuttle to join the crew on Enterprise. But now he tries the same schtick by glancing at Carol while she changes, and she'll have none of it. She's not intimidated or impressed by his glances, and gives him nothing in return except the sign to quit gawking and an order to turn around.

    Kirk is flustered by this and doesn't quite know how to react, except to do what she tells him. This plays into his continuing decline in confidence throughout the film as he is rejected or slapped down by his superiors and peers. He's not able to get by on winging it or impressing people with his overconfidence any more. He has to work to get what he wants and to earn respect.

    It also establishes Carol as a strong presence who is not embarrassed about who she is, won't fall for any cheap flirty tricks, and doesn't put up with anyone's BS. This makes Kirk admire her even more and foreshadows their eventual love for each other. Carol is not like the other women Kirk has been attracted to. She's not a cheap date or a one night stand. She's an intelligent, strong, talented individual whom he respects for those qualities, and not just for her looks for a change, though that appeals to him as well.

    Kirk hasn't met a woman this formidable and intriguing to him since Uhura rejected him completely in the bar in the first film. Gaela (the Orion) he used to further his own ends in the Korbayashi Maru test and then uncaringly disposed of without a second thought, but Uhura he kept pursuing for three years until he came to understand that she loved Spock, and Spock was someone he came to admire as well.

    Oddly enough, the underwear scene is sort of a shorter and more blunt version of Bond and Vesper's witty banter on the train in Casino Royale that established her to be his equal, and that didn't shy away from sexual implications either. It might seem counterintuitive to convey these kinds of ideas through a two-second underwear shot, but IMO it works in film and TV tradition of "show, don't tell."
     
  20. Admiral Buzzkill

    Admiral Buzzkill Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Love the Alice Eve underwear scene. The Cumberbatch shower scene should have been included for balance, though.