Should There Be A Blu Ray Of The Animaited Series?

Discussion in 'Star Trek - The Original & Animated Series' started by KirkSpockTOSFan, Sep 22, 2009.

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Should they release a blu ray collection of The Animaied Series

  1. Yes

    29 vote(s)
    46.8%
  2. No

    22 vote(s)
    35.5%
  3. Maybe

    8 vote(s)
    12.9%
  4. Not sure

    3 vote(s)
    4.8%
  1. Cap'n Claus

    Cap'n Claus Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Yes, that's right. I was working so hard trying to remember human examples, I forgot about the Enterprise shots, like the orbits and the "dive toward the scrreen" opening shot of The Cage redone. Those were more than the usual "slide it across the screen" method they normally used.

    Filmation ruled. :techman:
     
  2. jefferiestubes8

    jefferiestubes8 Commodore Premium Member

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    audio track changes in home video releases

    Changes have been made to TOS series on the audio side as well as ssosmcin and Indysolo say so for the 1999 DVD (and subsequent releases: 2004 DVDs, 2009 DVDs & Blu-rays.
    all of the details are here:
    http://www.trekbbs.com/showpost.php?p=3470570&postcount=9

    and here
    http://www.trekbbs.com/showpost.php?p=3484132&postcount=14

    ahd here
    http://www.trekbbs.com/showpost.php?p=3491118&postcount=17
     
  3. jefferiestubes8

    jefferiestubes8 Commodore Premium Member

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    Blu-ray of entire TAS

    "More Tribbles, More Troubles" has already been telecined in HD for the Blu-ray of season 2 TOS as a special feature.

    There are 22 episodes. 1 is already done.
    telecine, dirt & dust cleanup and record more commentary tracks and a HD documentary all about TAS including archival interviews with Gene Roddenberry talking about it and it would be pretty easy to put out on Blu-ray within 18 months.
     
  4. Hober Mallow

    Hober Mallow Commodore Commodore

    Um... okay.

    What does that have to do with releasing the series on blu-ray? They don't have to change anything to release the series on blu-ray. They've always released one episode on blu-ray -- "More Tribbles, More Troubles."

    Blu-ray isn't about changing things. It's about giving us a high-definition transfer. So you don't want the animation to be changed. That's fine. Why then don't you want the series on blu-ray? I'm not quite getting the connection...
     
  5. Ríu ríu chíu

    Ríu ríu chíu Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    So am I right in assuming that they could put TAS, as it exists right now, straight to Blu-Ray without any reworking whatsoever? And have it be in native High Definition?

    (I'm just curious as to why the TAS Tribbles episode was done in HD, but the DS9 one was not. If I'm right, this is because DS9 would need all new effects to be in native HD, because DS9's original FX were done on videotape. Right? And since TAS is film-only, it's already primed for Blu-Ray release, since the native resolution of 35mm film is way higher than HDTV.)
     
  6. jefferiestubes8

    jefferiestubes8 Commodore Premium Member

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    Yes telecine to HD, dustbusted and mastered to 1080/24p HD in pillarbox (black bars on sides).
    TAS was shot on 35mm, and mastered to 35mm including all edits, titles, and dissolves.

    info about DS9-Episode "Trials And Tribble-ations" in HD and efforts involved in remastering DS9 to HD are in two links here:
    http://www.trekbbs.com/showpost.php?p=3269714&postcount=11
     
  7. milo bloom

    milo bloom Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    You're mostly there. The TAS film elements would no doubt require some cleanup and possibly color timing fixes (from natural film fading), but it would definitely be easier for it go straight to an HD format than any TNG, DS9 or VOY without the need for any "upconverting" or such.

    All three of 80's-90s live action series were filmed on actual "film", but as you said the FX were done in standard definition.

    All the original film negatives would have to be pulled out of storage, recut to the exact sequences as shown in the episode, and then the new FX done at the higher resolution. Now this process mainly refers to anything combining live action and an effect, like Q's flash-in/flash-out. Anything that's like a space shot could conceivably just be done completely in the computer. While TNG did achieve most of them via filming models that were then edited on video, the new space shots could do the same thing they did for TOS. Time how long the scene is, how long it takes the ship to move from one side of the screen to the other, that sort of thing, and just do it completely in the computer.

    With 179 eps, it's still a massive undertaking, but as we've been re-watching TNG, I've kinda been noting where the FX are, and there's a lot that could be done with simple CG replacement like the space shots.


    Just as info, you'd need about 6-8000 lines of resolution to approach what film is capable of. DVD has 480 and BluRay/hidef has 1080.
     
  8. jefferiestubes8

    jefferiestubes8 Commodore Premium Member

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    film vs 6k/8k datacine/telecine for Blu-ray

    The films that have been scanned at ultra high resolutions have been:
    http://www.theblurayblog.com/2009/06/the-wizard-of-oz-confirmed-for-blu-ray-release-in-september/
    2nd source

    .
    The Wizard of Oz: 70th Anniversary Ultimate Collector's Edition (1939, Blu-ray) review



    North by Northwest - 50th Anniversary Edition (Blu-Ray)
    http://www.classicflix.com/north-northwest-50th-anniversary-edition-november-a-522.html

    http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/show/David_Krauss/Warner_Brothers/Industry_Trends/Blu_About_The_Slow_Release_of_Classic_Titles_On_Blu-ray_Take_Heart!_%28UPDATED%29/2502

    Gone with the Wind 70th Anniversary Ultimate Collector's Edition / Blu-ray
    http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Gone-with-the-Wind-Blu-ray/758/
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2010
  9. Ríu ríu chíu

    Ríu ríu chíu Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    That post implied that the DS9 ep (Trials and Tribble-ations) was actually done in HD. It wasn't. As I said, they couldn't make it HD without redoing the effects, and they obviously didn't do that. I think it was just upconverted SD.
     
  10. Harvey

    Harvey Admiral Admiral

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    The DS9 episode was just up-converted, yes.

    As for TAS in high definition, it wouldn't interest me unless the special features received a major upgrade. The quality of animation isn't that great to begin with, so the difference between HD and SD isn't that big of a deal for me.
     
  11. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

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    You misunderstood me. Re-read my original post - I didn't like the idea of "re-animating" TAS, something someone else brought up previously. I also didn't like the changes already made to TAS for the DVD release (a few colours were changed). I just don't think it's worth HDing a cartoon.

    Sorry if I wasn't clearer.
     
  12. Ríu ríu chíu

    Ríu ríu chíu Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Why didn't you like those changes? They were done just to fix mistakes, weren't they? (AFAIK, Hal Sutherland was colorblind, so that may be the source of some of them, like the pink Klingon uniforms)

    Perhaps. I have the opposite view. I advocate HDing everything possible. I mean, it can't look any worse, can it?
     
  13. milo bloom

    milo bloom Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Actually, lower resolution formats can hide flaws in the original source material. There's examples of really old films being transferred to DVD or even laserdisc, and the higher resolution allowed things like strings holding up props to be seen, whereas before they would have blended in by virtue of the lower resolution.

    I do think everything should be presented in the best format possible, but keep in mind that we're going to start seeing some of the old flaws that we weren't seeing before.
     
  14. jefferiestubes8

    jefferiestubes8 Commodore Premium Member

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    HD and resolution

    Case in point Star Trek TOS seasons 1-3 in HD.
    http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htf/showpost.php?p=3230780&postcount=378

    ruin the storytelling?

    If the audience is distracted by imperfections then you are taken out of the filmic medium that the director is showing you.

    A line art cartoon is different. We all know it was drawn by hand. Filmmation animation in the 1970s was minimal. We all know it.
    The backgrounds would benefit from HD in color subtleties. and resolution.
     
  15. milo bloom

    milo bloom Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Re: HD and resolution

    I'm well aware this sort of process needs to be judged on a case by case basis. I'm just making sure folks understand HD doesn't magically make things better. (For some reason I'm reminded of a somewhat opposite phenomenon: a few years back when Lucas foisted the old non-16x9 enhanced laserdisc transfers of the OT on us, there were people that truly and honestly believed that films made before DVD came around couldn't be anamorphically enhanced, so Lucas was in fact giving us the movies in the best format possible.)

    Another animation example I thought of, remember the episode of Futurama where Amy gets an obscene tattoo that couldn't be made out due to the (then) low resolution of TV broadcasts? I wonder if that joke will still work when the series gets transferred in hi-def...
     
  16. Ríu ríu chíu

    Ríu ríu chíu Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    If HD resolutions show those flaws, then let them. Help inspire future film and TV show makers to not HAVE those flaws. ;)
     
  17. milo bloom

    milo bloom Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    There's somebody either around here or another forum I frequent with a sig that says something to the effect of "It's not that you're still seeing the wires holding them up, it's that after so many years, you're still looking for them."
     
  18. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

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    I get fixing mistakes (although with the ..erm.. 'dated' animation, imo the mikstakes add to the charm) but stuff like changing the Delta Triangle from it's misty red to solid black is utterly pointless and wasn't even done properly (once or twice triangle space is still red)!
     
  19. Captain Robert April

    Captain Robert April Vice Admiral Admiral

  20. Kail

    Kail Commodore Commodore

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    I never did get this move. What the hell was the point? It made no sense to change the Delta triangle space from red and cloudy to black.