Should the war have ended earlier?

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Deep Space Nine' started by dub, Mar 3, 2014.

  1. dub

    dub Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    There is a thread going in the general discussion sub-forum about the one thing you would change in each series. One of the most popular answers for DS9 is that they should have ended the Dominion War earlier, then left time to show the aftermath/consequences/results. So I thought this might be a good discussion to have here. Do you think DS9 would have been better if they ended the war earlier in the series?

    The war arc was one of my favorite parts of the series. I liked climaxing the series with the end of the war, then some nice open-ended closure for the characters. For me, DS9 has not only the best series finale among Treks, but it's the best series finale I've ever seen. I love it so much. And for those reasons, selfishly, I wouldn't change a thing.

    Side note: I do think a spin-off series would have been cool, dealing with the aftermath and what happens to the characters after the series. Before you hate...I know it's totally unrealistic based on that premise alone, the popularity of the series, etc. But in my mind it could have been neat. Even more unrealistically, a series today that takes place 10 or 15 years after the finale which includes some of the characters would be cool. In my mind, that is. ;) Which is where it shall stay. And that's okay. Of course, I'd have a better perspective on all of this if I'd already read the novels (no spoilers please)!
     
  2. Shik

    Shik Commander Red Shirt

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    Honestly, I think it should've gone on longer. I understand that they'd wanted to stick to the "7-year standard" the shows fell into, but a war like that should've been more than 2, 2½ years...at least 4. But that would've required a 9-season show, so..
     
  3. Bad Thoughts

    Bad Thoughts Commodore Commodore

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    And deprive Berman of a big, effects-laden finale?

    In general, it would have been nice to give some distance, even two episodes, between the end of the war and the confrontation in the Fire Caves. Dukat and Winn spent three weeks in the caves? I don't think so, and it seems a little contrived that the episode cuts between the caves and the battle in Cardassian space.
     
  4. dub

    dub Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Perhaps it's a question for another thread, but why did they try to force each series into 7 seasons (no more, no less)?
     
  5. Shik

    Shik Commander Red Shirt

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    Because it's a nice sized run. You don't feel rushed or unfinished, nor do you have to worry about propelling over a selachimorph.
     
  6. MacLeod

    MacLeod Admiral Admiral

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    Well as others have already implied, instead of ending the war earlier, they could just have done another season or two. But could they have mainted quality of stories?
     
  7. Bad Thoughts

    Bad Thoughts Commodore Commodore

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    I think yes. If the Dominion War drew its inspiration from WWII stories, there were still more stories after the armistices. The problem is that they would lack the potential for action--big action--and would be more sedate, even depressing at times.
     
  8. Bad Thoughts

    Bad Thoughts Commodore Commodore

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    If there's anything that would make it difficult to go several seasons beyond the war, it would be Odo. I think the show developed such that Odo was almost as much a character of "destiny" as Sisko. Both personal stories were tied up in greater political machinations. It's hard to imagine the show to go on if Odo were not on, and he couldn't well stick around if his knowledge, his experience, and his immunity were not introduced to the Great Link. The war couldn't really end without Odo committing fully to the Link.
     
  9. Dale Sams

    Dale Sams Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    You know...I'm watching seasons 6 and 7 again, and the first thing I'm struck by is:

    Why the hell doesn't someone just make few new 2-hour TV movies?? You can't tell me that they wouldn't make money. A new Star Trek 2-hour movie would get great ratings, and hasn't new technology actually made it cheaper?
     
  10. JirinPanthosa

    JirinPanthosa Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    As a viewer I would have liked to see the aftermath of the war. However from a dramatic storytelling standpoint it would be difficult to maintain the intensity after the main arc has concluded.

    The best counterargument for ending the war earlier I think is season 5 of Babylon 5. The psi corps stuff was not well done. Chekov (I forget the B5 character's name) was great in the role he played in the war but as a main opponent came off as a bit more of a mustache twirler, and the way they treated what's her name the telepath (I keep thinking Leeta but is that right?) after she won the war for them made you dislike the characters more. Bringing in somebody who fought for the other side as a gesture of peace was a good idea but it didn't go much of anywhere. Then there was the Centauri stuff that was already thoroughly choreographed in visions and time travel bits. The only good episode in that season was the finale.

    If DS9 had another season after the war ended, it probably would have gone much the same way as B5 season 5. Having to elevate role villains to main villain status who don't carry the banner as well. That's why I think, if anything, a short postwar arc which included the fire caves stuff would have been best.
     
  11. vulcan redshirt

    vulcan redshirt Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    You mean Bester and Lyta Alexander.
     
  12. LOKAI of CHERON

    LOKAI of CHERON Commodore Commodore

    Oh mercy yes, the war arc was the single worst aspect of DS9 for me - even more so than the convoluted Bajoran "prophets"/religious nonsense. The war just dragged on, and on, and on, and on - to the point of extreme tedium.

    I know it's heresy to say it, but quite honestly, I much prefer the standalone format of earlier Trek, perhaps with slower burning "arcs" in the background if they must. Please don't get me wrong, I still enjoy the show - but it's easily my least favoured iteration, and the most "unTreklike" Trek in the canon for me.
     
  13. JirinPanthosa

    JirinPanthosa Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    That's it. I kept thinking Leeta then thinking I was mixing her up with DS9's Leeta. ;)

    @Lokai

    I like both episodic Trek and serial Trek, and I like the DS9 writer's interpretation and commentary on the Star Trek universe. The way you feel is the way I felt back when DS9 aired, so I get it. But honestly aside from the Occupation arc and the final series there were a lot more standalone episodes than arced episodes. I love the idealism of Trek but I also love to see it get challenged. It's like Roddenberry made a debate point in the form of TNG and Behr made a rebuttal in the form of DS9.
     
  14. Seven of Five

    Seven of Five Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I wonder what things would have been like if the show had ended in season six, which I think was a possibility at some point? A more focused season, perhaps? And no Ezri! Although the writers probably still would have ended the war at the end of the show.

    I really enjoyed the war arc, as it inspired some fantastic episodes. I can't help but think that if the war had ended earlier though, we might have had a bit of closure for Bajor, the Romulans post-ITPM, and the state of the Alpha Quadrant and the Federation in general. I loved What You Leave Behind, but it had to cover so much plot, that so many sweeping changes happen so quickly throughout the two hours, which could have been built up more substantially for a few episodes.
     
  15. MacLeod

    MacLeod Admiral Admiral

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    It's fine to like different formats of stroytelling. But whilst some wars last only a short time others last years. So 2 years or so isn't unreasanbale for a war to last. But as the saying goes you can't please everyone all of the time. So to some it would be too short for others too long for some just right. TV audiances are hard to please.

    And Walter Koenig's character in B5 was called ALfred Bester.
     
  16. mendelin

    mendelin Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    As for me, I'm completely satisfied with DS9-show. All story lines are really well balanced, they have good development and good closure.
    In my opinion, WYLB has prepared for DS9 a bold journey to the big screen. Instead of Nemesis with tired old NextGen crew they could make a couple of DS9 movies with Bajor&Federation, Sisko&Prophets, Odo&Great Link.
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2014
  17. AgentCoop

    AgentCoop Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    The Dominion War arc is my favorite thing that Trek has ever done, in any of it's iterations. I actually think it was just about perfect, length-wise. True, I would have liked to see a little more follow-up afterwards, especially in regard to the broader ramifications for the larger Trek universe, but it's understandable that they ended it on a high action note. I consider it a failing of the Next Generation movies that they barely mentioned the war.
     
  18. HaventGotALife

    HaventGotALife Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I have thought this for a long time, ever since I re-watched DS9 in 2010 and someone asked what I would do for an eighth season. Here is my response from the DS9 Movie thread:

    I don't have much to say other than that.
     
  19. LOKAI of CHERON

    LOKAI of CHERON Commodore Commodore

    Totally agree - I didn't, nor would I, suggest otherwise. Just stating my personal preference.

    Agree again. I realise it's a minority viewpoint, but I found the extended war arc dreary and quite exhausting to sit through at many points. Also, while "real" wars do indeed often extend into periods exceeding many years, I felt it was a mistake to do so on DS9. It all became just a little dull and sluggish.
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2014
  20. Danny99

    Danny99 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    ^^ Lokai, just curious, what would you have done with DS9 without all the Dominion back story?

    Personally, I can't imagine DS9 without the build up to and the war seasons. Earlier DS9 was basically a poorer version of TNG without the exploration. At the end of Season Two, just before the finale of "The Jem'Hadar", the show looked rudderless. How long could they go running around the Gamma Quadrant in runabouts before it was cancelled?

    I think seven seasons was fine, but with the addition of a handful of two hour episodes. The tide of the war seemed to turn quite quickly after the destruction of the original Defiant. A couple more hours could have fleshed out those moments.