Should "Star Trek IV" have introduced a different NCC-1701-A?

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies I-X' started by dswynne1, May 13, 2014.

  1. austen_pierce

    austen_pierce Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2013
    Location:
    Virginia Beach, VA

    I always had the impression that a lot of time passed between TUC and GEN. Yes, some of this is influenced by Shatner's novels, particularly the non-canon Ashes of Eden, which detailed ENT-A's final fate. But even there, the ship was in mothballs, so...

    To the latter, I only meant that Starfleet changed their mind. I know I'm out on a limb, and a thin one at that.
     
  2. Brutal Strudel

    Brutal Strudel Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Didn't Gen say Harriman was the first person since Kirk to command an Enterprise?
     
  3. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2001
    Location:
    Per Ardua
    Yeah, I think so. Also, I think its suppose to take place only a year or so after TUC.
     
  4. austen_pierce

    austen_pierce Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2013
    Location:
    Virginia Beach, VA
    Damn. Yes it does. One of the reporters says something like 'this is the first Enterprise in XX years without James T Kirk in command How do you feel about that?"

    So much for my theory.

    I'd also forgotten that Yorktown appears earlier in TVH. Any chance the whale probe damage is responsible for the problems the ship has in TFF, assuming Y becomes E-A?
     
  5. Dukhat

    Dukhat Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2007
    Location:
    Baltimore, MD
    I would think that if the Yorktown suffered damage from the Whale Probe to the extent of the ship having all the troubles it did in STV, that Starfleet would never have green-lit its launch at the end of STIV.
     
  6. Chemahkuu

    Chemahkuu Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2004
    Location:
    Ulster
    The Enterprise A is retired a few months before the launch of the Enterprise B, both in 2293. Which means the Enterprise B was already under construction during a great deal of the Enterprise A's service life.

    Is was honorary, the ship was never meant to last so long, or get into trouble, just keep Kirk and his crew out of the way of the rest of the fleet, serve their alloted time for their crimes in relative comfort and without seeming to punish those who saved Earth.

    The Excelsior and Enterprise B were everything Starfleet wanted and were going ahead with.
     
  7. C.E. Evans

    C.E. Evans Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2001
    Location:
    Ferguson, MO, USA
    "'Let's see what she's got' said the Captain. And then we found out, didn't we?"
    --Montgomery Scott

    Sometimes flaws pop up after launch.
     
  8. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2001
    Location:
    Per Ardua
    They do. But that would point to not only a failure of the systems in question, but also the systems that are suppose to monitor those systems. Which I have a tough time believing.

    It makes no sense that totally unrelated systems would be faltering, transporters, turbolifts, voice recorders and none of the monitoring systems picked it up until after launch. Plus, it would seem, at the very least, that the turbolifts were working prior to them leaving Spacedock or else they'd have never left.

    Maybe the failures had nothing to do with whether it was an old or new ship? DC Comics #37 (post-The Voyage Home) had it that the ship was sabotaged coming out of Spacedock.

    [​IMG]
     
  9. Leto_II

    Leto_II Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2013
    Location:
    Room 303, The Heart O' The City Hotel
    The novels set post-TUC indeed took up this position, with the Federation President issuing an official reprieve for the Constitution-class a couple of days after the movie's conclusion, and with the Enterprise-A continuing onto further missions well into 2293 (before meeting its final end in Shatner's The Ashes of Eden).


    Although this would seem to go slightly against Starfleet Command's belief in TUC that Kirk and his crew were the best-suited to "serve as [our] olive-branch" to the Klingon Empire -- it was Kirk's belief that a full ambassador would have been in a far better position to initiate peace talks with the enemy, but clearly the Federation held Kirk in high enough esteem to entrust him with the mission.

    Also, as we see in TFF, James Kirk and a malfunctioning Enterprise-A were both still viewed as significant tactical assets by Starfleet Command, enough for Admiral Bennett to task Kirk with the hostage-rescue mission ("I need Jim Kirk"), when there were probably other, better-equipped starships which could've undertaken the job right then.
     
  10. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2001
    Location:
    Per Ardua
    I don't know. The assignment could've been driven by conspirators who hoped Kirk would do something stupid out there because of his history with the Klingons?
     
  11. Khan 2.0

    Khan 2.0 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2013
    Location:
    earth...but when?...spock?
    the reason why kirk and co got the same enterprise was so the audience wud love it
     
  12. Dukhat

    Dukhat Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2007
    Location:
    Baltimore, MD
    No, that was just a side-effect of the real reason, as has already been pointed out.
     
  13. C.E. Evans

    C.E. Evans Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2001
    Location:
    Ferguson, MO, USA
    That's what a shakedown cruise is for. A ship can be built or extensively refitted and everything checks out fine while in Spacedock, but then put her out in the field and put her through her paces during her space trials, several problems might crop up which will need fixing with some other things to be tweaked. I think that's exactly what happened with the Enterprise-A in the timeframe between Star Treks IV and V. By the end of Star Trek V, the Enterprise-A was good to go.
     
  14. Chemahkuu

    Chemahkuu Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2004
    Location:
    Ulster
    ST4 2286
    ST5 2289

    That's a looooong ass shakedown cruise. During which the bridge module at least has been completely replaced.

    So the ship...starts out fine as far as we can see, then suffers from constant break downs for three solid years in a way that seems to show no major system aboard is spared, considering that includes warp reactors, gravity etc

    Then in ST6 (2293) after 4 more years, the replacement of every major area of the ship from bridge, to shuttlebay, to engineering etc which essentially means they've had to rebuild the entire goddamn ship around the frame at least once, it works, only to retire.

    Somethings not right there.
     
  15. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2001
    Location:
    Per Ardua
    I think The Final Frontier is suppose to take place just a few weeks or months after the end of The Voyage Home.

     
  16. Chemahkuu

    Chemahkuu Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2004
    Location:
    Ulster
    Memory Alpha gives it as 2287 after the cruise, could have sworn it was meant to be longer, what's up with the new bridge module then?

    And a 6 year random gap to ST6.

    Ugh, that fucking film...
     
  17. FormerLurker

    FormerLurker Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    May 17, 2009
    The bridge module was probably the first thing they replaced, only to find out they needed an even more different one to get the thing to work correctly, as they learned on the Nimbus III/center of the galaxy mission. I mean, why else would Kirk say, "I miss my old chair."?
     
  18. Leto_II

    Leto_II Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2013
    Location:
    Room 303, The Heart O' The City Hotel
    The canon dating of Star Trek V comes from a third-season TNG episode, "Evolution," where Data mentions that it has been 79 years since the last full-scale catastrophic systems failure aboard a Federation starship (back in 2287) -- Michael Piller later confirmed that this was indeed a reference to the fifth movie, which had just been released theatrically only a couple of months prior to the start of TNG's third season.

    This dating is also used in the official Okuda chronology, which places Star Trek VI in 2293 as a result, etc., which is also where the Memory Alpha-dating derives.


    Yup -- going strictly from one film to the next, it's clear that several major structural changes have occurred to the Enterprise-A between movies; the bridge getting renovated being the biggest visual/temporal cue that some time has passed between the events of TVH and TFF.

    Harve Bennett postulated something in the neighborhood of a six-month shakedown cruise (or thereabouts) -- however, with TSFS taking place in 2285, and TVH occurring only three months later (in early 2286), it's clear that a much longer timespan separates the two movies; likely between 9-12 months, at the absolute minimum.

    As BillJ points out, a bunch of the first series of DC Comics stories set after Star Trek IV took place during that interim period (2286-87), and there are several events there which could be viewed as possibly contributory to the Enterprise-A's eventual widespread systems-breakdown as seen in Star Trek V.
     
  19. Mr Pointy Ears

    Mr Pointy Ears Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2008
    Location:
    Adelaide,australia
    I remember reading somewhere that the producers were thinking of giving kirk command of the excelsior for the next movie which would of had been the final frontier.
     
  20. WarpFactorZ

    WarpFactorZ Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2013
    I always thought that was a reference to Scotty's sabotage of the Excelsior, since the E-A never really suffered a "catastrophic system failure" (the turbolift saying "Le -- Le -- Level" doesn't really count, in my book).