Should Neelix/Kes have stayed together?

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Voyager' started by Melakon, Dec 28, 2012.

  1. Lynx

    Lynx Vice Admiral Admiral

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    And who would be better to ease the tension than Our Morale Officer!

    Besides that, it's not sure that Samantha rejected Naomi. Her absence may have had more to do with her being occupied with work in the Torpedo and Shuttlebuilding Team. Take also into consideration that we had a Duplicate Kim who was accepted by everybody.

    Personally I wish that they would have kept the Duplicate Kes too!
     
  2. JirinPanthosa

    JirinPanthosa Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I didn't get the impression Sam was a negligent mother. I did get the impression the producers didn't want to pay her actress every time they wanted a cute kid in their story.

    There is all this time Naomi is just wandering around the ship. Sam probably has an 8 hour duty shift, and she can't lock Naomi in her room all that time, especially since she knows every single person on the ship will look out for her.

    I liked the ending of that episode. I didn't see it as coming off as Star Trek preachiness, I saw it as a good way to represent the world's pluralism.
     
  3. Fruitcake

    Fruitcake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    You are so greedy!

    But hey, we should have 2 Kes's AND we should keep Admiral Janeway and Captain Janeway.
     
  4. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Then they would have gone to war to see who could break up the Indian and the Borgette.
     
  5. Fruitcake

    Fruitcake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Now that we have two Janeway's the J/7, J/C dilemma is finally over. One for each, everybody is happy.
     
  6. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    The old one is flabby and the young one is comparatively an idiot.
     
  7. Fruitcake

    Fruitcake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    7 is not an idiot!!
     
  8. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Compare yourself now to yourself 30 years ago.

    Admiral Janeway is flabby, and Captain Janeway is not as smart as Admiral Janeway.
     
  9. exodus

    exodus Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Actually the actress that played Sam Wildman was branching out her career from TV actress to TV writer during the time. She was writing and developing her own TV show, which paid off. She was the head writer and creator of the series "My Boys" about a woman sports writer who all her friends were men.
     
  10. exodus

    exodus Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I found Capt. Janeway smarter than Admiral Janeway.
    Adm. Janeway would have created a diplomatic incident by stealing from the Klingons, lying to Starfleet and probably filing a false flight log, too name a few. How was she smart if she would have cause hostilities between two allied governments just to save one ship and a few people?
    How was she smart crippling the Borg, so that when they regrouped(and they will regroup) we'd be public enemy number one?
     
  11. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    None of the people in the future count because they were already dead.

    They were dead or she failed, and she wasn't going to fail.

    Alternately some more of her crew, including Seven, didn't die, as soon as she made up her mind and they re-died the second she chose to relent.

    We have no fate but what we make.
     
  12. exodus

    exodus Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I don't understand how that still makes Adm. Janeway smarter?
     
  13. R. Star

    R. Star Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    So Admiral Janeway travels to the past.

    Gives Captain Janeway the godmode version of Voyager.

    Janeway uses godmode to kill the Borg and get home.

    So isn't there no future Janeway to give them godmode and that equates to a reset button since that Admiral Janeway doesn't exist? :p
     
  14. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Unless she has dementia or something like Dementia, it would be hard for Admiral Janeway not to be 30 years more worldly or knowledgeable than her junior counterpart, or are you only counting IQ towards the definition of "smart"?

    No offence intended, you're wonderful, and you probably have the same-ish IQ as your 20 year old self, but face facts, if you met your 20 year old self you'd slap him for all the shit he's put you through.
     
  15. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    She left the universe to travel through time which divorces this woman from her own continuity, which is the rules we were taught in Year of Hell and Futures End, and even City at the Edge of Forever where Kirk was temporally shielded by the Guardian.
     
  16. Fruitcake

    Fruitcake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    :: sits back, cup of tea, enjoys reading Guy defend the smarts of Adm. Janeway ::
     
  17. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Lady, I don't want to be your damn fluffer.

    Do I?

    The Admiral knew the only way to get her younger self to do anything, is to attempt to force that tyke to do the exact opposite of what she is actually required to do to win out the day.

    Why else would anyone as obstinate as Kathryn Janeway cast off her masterplan at the fist sign of obstacle and difficulty?

    Seriously, half way through the episode we're supposed to believe that the Admiral makes a one 80 turn because some parrot in control of an outdated, antiquated and obsolete version of her ego and cunning, summons transparent arguments she had already considered months ago would rear up, and how to counter those arguments immediately and with prejudice, outwits her?

    That's ridiculous.

    (Unless there was some dementia or temporal aphasia.)

    Bait and switch.

    It's how she planned to marry Chakotay this time around before Seven could get her ducks in a row.
     
  18. Fruitcake

    Fruitcake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    My adoration of the Admiral is so great that even if you cast her machinations as being all about the tent pole rather than the Borg I'm still very, very fluffed.
     
  19. R. Star

    R. Star Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Then why would the Borg Queen, who is supposed to be an authority on time travel, given how "four dimentional" she thinks, operate under the assumption that if she kills young Janeway, old Janeway's bad mojo STD she assimilated would go away?
     
  20. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    You think the Queen is an authority on time travel?

    After she cocked up First Contact like a rank amateur?

    Besides, some times stuff disappears like in Time Squared or Time and Again, and sometimes it doesn't like in Yesterdays Enterprise of Futures end.

    But if the Admiral was going to disappear, it would have been the instant that her past became impossible, which was the very instant she met her younger self and after that one moment, her existence just compounded into becoming more and more impossible after that, not that degrees of impossibility mean much since the paradox held and it was going to continue to hold because the forces moving against it were countered or irrelevant.

    I say countered as in kathryn may have been using technology to moot the paradox like a time stabilizer from babylon 5, or the time travel process she used may have inoculated her washing the old in useful radiation, or as I said before: leaving the universe/going out side of time, or becoming temporally shielded from time, means that time loses track with who you are and where you're from because of the break you took from being it's bitch. Time is lazy.

    Temporal shields are the same as being outside time?

    Does that mean that when you are temporally shielded that you don't age?

    Did Year of Hell Kathryn discover/invent immortality and not notice?

    Would she have killed herself at the end so readily if she knew she had the next ten million years to deal with Annorax Casually?

    One of Christopher's temporal investigation novels claims that the notion that being outside time retards the ageing process is bosh. That it's probably just some metaphasic radiation released ambiently during the process of being some place so god awfully weird.

    Like how you shouldn't drink water in Mexico, but the other way around.

    Are Mexicans told to drink as tap water as they can when they holiday in the states, or are they also told to stay away from yanky tap water because it contains far less nutrition, calories and insect meat.

    A gallon of Mexican water a day might be as nutritious as four MacDonalds Cheeseburgers if you can keep it down.