Should Dukat have died during Waltz?

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Deep Space Nine' started by The Overlord, Dec 21, 2011.

  1. The Overlord

    The Overlord Captain Captain

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  2. sonak

    sonak Vice Admiral Admiral

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    from an in-series perspective I'd say no, since this episode was more of a start for a new arc for him than a conclusion to the character overall.

    From a meta-perspective, I'd say yes, since this was the start of some serious character assassination that turned Dukat into a one-note uninteresting crazed supervillain type of character.
     
  3. Thor Damar

    Thor Damar Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I'd say no, just because Dukat as a character is such a brilliantly realized villain (or not even that,more antagonist than ultimate evil) that to kill him off would be a shame indeed.

    I'd even go so far as to say that Marc Alaimo has the acting chops to make insane Dark Messiah Dukat actually watchable despite the fact that it did turn him into a Satanistic super-villain of DOOM. So almost any type of Dukat would have worked in DS9.

    Not that there wasn't a different route to take, what if Dukat hadn't joined the Pah-wraith but instead had remained a rouge potent force of chaos? Perhaps he would end up leading The True Way againist both the Federation, Bajor and the Dominion...
     
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2011
  4. RoJoHen

    RoJoHen Awesome Premium Member

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    I agree with this. I would have loved more Dukat after "Waltz," but the Dukat we got was just not very interesting.
     
  5. toughlittleship

    toughlittleship Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I thought Dukat was at his best manipulating the Kai into helping him release the Pah-wraith. I loved the scenes where he feigned respect for her.
     
  6. Nerys Ghemor

    Nerys Ghemor Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Me too. I also consider "Covenant" to be a highlight of Marc Alaimo's acting. Having seen footage of real cult leaders, to me it is very clear he did his homework on that one. It came off very creepy and convincing.

    Even a slightly lesser actor could not have pulled off those post-"Waltz" scripts, but given the calibre of the actor, no, I don't regret the fact that Dukat survived "Waltz."
     
  7. You_Will_Fail

    You_Will_Fail Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I thought the Pa-wraith stuff was really crap and I think him dying in Waltz might have been pretty good.
     
  8. Jono

    Jono Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Disagree
     
  9. MrBorg

    MrBorg Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    I agree. Him dying would have been so much better than him becoming an insane cultist.

    He basically did die, though, because he wasn't Dukat anymore.
     
  10. DS9 Gal AZ

    DS9 Gal AZ Captain Captain

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    I don't know, I thought he did the insane cult leader bit pretty well.
     
  11. Ancient Mariner

    Ancient Mariner Vice Admiral Admiral

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    No ... while I dislike how simplistic his character became, it's preferable than conjuring some brand new mustache-twirling villain to fill his role in later episodes.

    The better question is: After "Waltz", how would you have liked to see his character develop and evolve?
     
  12. RoJoHen

    RoJoHen Awesome Premium Member

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    I'm not a huge fan of "Waltz" in general. Dukat going crazy is just silly. Honestly, I would have loved to see it go the complete opposite direction, with Dukat becoming more of a good guy, seeking redemption, possibly even helping Sisko on his path as the Emissary. I think that would have been a whole lot more interesting than what we got.
     
  13. Coloratura

    Coloratura Snuggle Princess Premium Member

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    Agreed. He was too complex a character to become a one note villain. It was a shame, because I always felt that despite some of his more terrible actions, that Dukat had the capacity to be a good person.
     
  14. RoJoHen

    RoJoHen Awesome Premium Member

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    In fact, my favorite Dukat moments are the ones where he and Sisko bond over the things they have in common.
     
  15. Coloratura

    Coloratura Snuggle Princess Premium Member

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    Agreed, and on that same note, when Sisko and Dukat would be at odds with one another, the interplay was terrific to watch.
     
  16. Nerys Ghemor

    Nerys Ghemor Vice Admiral Admiral

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    If that redemption involved really--truly realizing the wrong that he'd done, that would have made a very interesting thing. Even though I don't mind the plot as it was.
     
  17. Anwar

    Anwar Vice Admiral Admiral

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    That really isn't possible for someone like Dukat, he just isn't capable of recognizing his flaws. Everything about him is pretty much "It's all about me".
     
  18. Nerys Ghemor

    Nerys Ghemor Vice Admiral Admiral

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    And that's why I personally don't think redemption could happen unless he really broke first. As in, more so than he did in canon.
     
  19. Navaros

    Navaros Commodore Commodore

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    I agree that it's better to kill off Dukat's character rather than turn him into the caricature that he became.

    Or simply imprison him and keep him off-screen for the rest of the series.

    However, I do not think either of those are the best options.

    I would have rather seen them do something good with him in a new plot that didn't fubar his character.