Should Chakotay have been more of a "bad ass"

Discussion in 'Voyager' started by Infern0, Jun 18, 2013.

  1. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Ugly? The choice was supposed to be unlikelily heroic.
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2013
  2. TheSubCommander

    TheSubCommander Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Well the problem with Chakotay not differentiating himself from Janeway is a microcosm of the whole dynamic of the Maquis and Starfleet crew members. They were too similar. Hell, most of the former Maquis were former Starfleet officers, who were drummed out or left on their own for one reason or another. Well, except for Seska.

    But other than a few episodes of grumbling, how were the Maquis really all that different from the star fleet crew? They had similar principles, wore the same uniform, and with Cardassia on the other side of the galaxy, the main reason for their conflict was rendered irrelevant.

    Now, with Chakotay in particular, he had a lot of potential, but it was wasted. First off, he was from some unnamed generic native American tribe. They should have made him of a real tribe with real traditions. Instead, we got a mish mash of all kinds of tribes. When they made his tribe descended from aliens, it just cheapened his Native American heritage that much more.

    Second, I also agree he should have been more like a toned down Edington, and Janeway and Chakotay should have had a history of being enemies prior to being stranded. Sort of like maybe Chakotay and Janeway served together, and Chakotay somehow betrayed Janeway, or tricked her somehow, when he joined the Maquis. That would have been more interesting where you essentially have two captains who don't get along, but are forced to work together, but we didn't have that very long. Chakotay became very friendly and loyal to Janeway very early on...maybe a little too soon. It would have been nice to see two people who hate each other gradually respect each other, and then become friends, and maybe even lovers at the very end.

    Which leads to another thing, the Seven\Chakotay thing was straight out of nowhere, and ruined chakotay's character, to me.
     
  3. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Chakotay is just like a dog, a golden retriever. That's why Janeway likes him so much.
     
  4. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    That and he hid bottles of rare wine all over the ship.

    Oh my.

    He claimed in Shattered that it was because of the temporal prime directive that he couldn't explain where he was hiding the wine even though it's technically hoarding and Janeway should have keel hauled him, but what if it was the same bottle which he hid over and over again a thousand times in a previous adventure and they were all still on board Voyager all over the place inside the walls and bulkheads.
     
  5. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Of course all earth wine is rare in their circumstances. It could be a cask of goon stashed in one of those morgue tubes and someone will take to it like it's Chateau Delicious. That's how spam happened.
     
  6. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    How much more popular would Kes have been if she was making moonshine off to the side of her Aeroponics farm... Exactly what spirit would one eke out of Leola root?
     
  7. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Since it's a root, vodka (which is often made from potatoes).

    Are people really so namby pamby in the 24th century that no one is brewing their own below decks? A little pruno in private quarters? I think the holodeck killed the fun in that, no reason to be naughty and ingenious when you can go to Risa on your lunch break.

    "Look look, I made a still and brewed this disgusting yet agreeably potent alcohol from kitchen scraps!"

    "Uh huh.. and I'm off to Wrigley's Pleasure Planet for 12 course sex frolic."

    I bet luddites bemoan how the holodeck has sapped people of creative impulses.
     
  8. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Creative impulses can only come from the demon in the bottle?
     
  9. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I'm sure there's a ton of stuff people don't do any more because of the holodeck.

    They had a still on Battlestar Galactica. I think they had one on Stargate Universe too though I may be wrong there. No one is going to bother on Voyager because they have the holodeck. Side projects that could get you in trouble have no point when you can do whatever you like on the holodeck.
     
  10. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Well Battlestar was set in the past not the future. Yes there was a still on Universe, and in Season two TNG UP The Long Ladder, the Enterprise's automatic fire suppression systems shut it down almost as soon as it got started.

    Only Tuvok, Janeway or Chakotay probably have the authority to turn off the automatic fire suppression systems even briefly... Although Neelix has an open flame going on in his kitchen and I suppose heating coils are not out of the question in making a still if you don't care about flavour.

    Replicated booze has no alcohol.

    So sad. :(
     
  11. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Neelix's enormous fires shooting up around his pans have always baffled me.
     
  12. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    It has to have been his stove from his ship? But Federation Engineers can build replicators from rocks, so why not a propane burner?
     
  13. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Maybe it would make sense if this was all wok style cooking (though it's still extreme) but he has these fires up the sides of pots he's simply boiling stuff in. That's a good point that it might be from his ship, hadn't thought of that. I bet he would have had an argument on his hands when everyone else first saw that hazard.
     
  14. Anwar

    Anwar Vice Admiral Admiral

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    This is why I thought the Maquis weren't the best choice for the Second Crew to begin with, because there wasn't enough reason for there to be extended conflict between the Feds and Maquis. Especially since the main reason for their conflict (The DMZ and the Cardassians) was now 75 years away.

    Using the Romulans, or even having a chunk of the crew now be DQ aliens they got at the Array, would've worked better.

    Either they shouldn't have made him a Fleeter to begin with, or just dropped the whole "Native American" thing.

    I considered that, but I thought a nice dynamic would've been for her to be younger and for him to be more a mentor figure to her before she gets it together any becomes the respected Captain.

    IE, when he joined the Maquis no one knew and no one had ever seen him so his reserve file was still active in Starfleet systems. When Janeway became Captain by default she didn't have the access codes that her rank allowed to access everything on Voyager, but Chakotay's old Reserve file rank did allow him to. So they'd work together because he'd be the first to realize they HAVE to cooperate.

    The conflict would be them vs the Fleeters who don't think an unpromoted Janeway can handle being their leader and the Maquis who think Chak sold out.
     
  15. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Thing about Camping, I LOVE the smell of propane in the morning.

    The Feds are not used to smelling their food cook.

    The Maquis should be good with it though.

    But from the stink of that gas burner, it should have been almost impossible for anyone from the core of the federation, raised on Replicators to have walked into that kitchen without vomiting.
     
  16. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    "Oh this is really frontier space, you can smell your food cooking!"

    It's illogical to boil a pot of liquid by shooting flames up the side. I think Neelix did it for the theater. He wants people to notice all this dramatic preparing of foods. Most of the time you don't see your food cooking, the kitchen of a starship or work cafeteria is safely tucked away for hygiene and safety purposes. But Neelix doesn't want people just retrieving sustenance like from replicators he wants them bedazzled by him providing for them so everything is visible and everything is fiery and exciting.

    And I bet most of them are so far removed from non-replicator food prep that they haven't a clue that flames shooting up the side of boiling pots makes no sense at all.
     
  17. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Was that wok a virgin?
     
  18. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    The theoretical wok that shooting flames would be allowed with?

    No it was not a virgin, Neelix had been using it as a privy on his ship for years but it cleaned up nicely in the sonic shower.
     
  19. Gov Kodos

    Gov Kodos Admiral Admiral

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    Of course not, that's why it would wok so funny.
     
  20. Captain Kathryn

    Captain Kathryn Commodore Commodore

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    Here is Chakotay being a badass:

    [YT]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQwQdVyecz4[/YT]