shared universe, crossovers and easter eggs

Discussion in 'Trek Literature' started by Hando, Jul 20, 2013.

  1. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    So, the way they handled Superman's appearance on I Love Lucy. Is it George Reeves as Superman, or is it actually Superman?
     
  2. Therin of Andor

    Therin of Andor Admiral Admiral

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  3. Greg Cox

    Greg Cox Admiral Premium Member

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    Ditto for John Carradine's appearance as Dracula on an old episode of McCloud titled, appropriately enough, "McCloud Meets Dracula."

    (How's that for an obscure bit of pop cultural trivia?)
     
  4. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    ^I don't remember that one.
     
  5. ATimson

    ATimson Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Past references aren't enough to stop crossovers; there's been several Trek references on Doctor Who, but there was still consideration of trying to do a crossover episode (before Enterprise was cancelled), and IDW later released a TNG/DW crossover comic.

    (And past crossovers aren't enough to stop references. The lead character of In Plain Sight cameoed on Law & Order: Criminal Intent before the show aired; but my understanding is that the writers of IPS later made reference to Law & Order as a TV show.)
     
  6. JD

    JD Admiral Admiral

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    I'm watching an old episode of Castle on one of my local channels, and Beckett just made a reference to Klingons. So there's at least one in Castle.
     
  7. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    And there were many Trek references in X-Men and other Marvel comics before the X-Men/Trek crossovers were done. But such crossovers are out-of-continuity "imaginary stories." Although maybe in DW it could be justified, given that there is precedent for the TARDIS crossing into fictional realms (e.g. "The Mind Robber").


    Sure, such things slip through sometimes, but that doesn't make it desirable to cross over two universes that have referenced each other as fiction. I feel it undermines believability, and if a universe has referred to Trek as fiction, then for me, that rules it out as a candidate for inclusion in Trek history.


    Castle and Beckett are both big SF/comics fans, so I'm sure there have been a number of Trek references among all the other sci-fi/fantasy nods. There must've been some in the SF-convention episode they did (not sure this counts, but there was a William Shatner spoken-word song played over the final scene of that episode).
     
  8. Kinokima

    Kinokima Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    I wish there was a Doctor Who crossover during Star Trek's original run. Patrick Troughton was the Doctor then...that would have been fantastic. But a dream is just a dream.
     
  9. Relayer1

    Relayer1 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I just don't think most franchises lend themselves to crossovers with Trek, particularly Dr Who. Not only do history and technology not fit, neither do the laws of physics. And as Scotty says, 'You cannae change the laws of physics...'
     
  10. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    Yeah, that would've been pretty much impossible. British audiences never saw Star Trek until July 1969, three weeks after the final Troughton episode ended and about six weeks after TOS's final episode aired. And US audiences didn't see Doctor Who until the '70s, in limited release, and then more widely in the '80s. So at the time both shows were on the air, neither show's audience would've had any awareness of the other, and indeed neither show's producers would've been likely to have much awareness of the other.


    Yeah, as I remarked, that's the crux of the problem. The fundamental worldbuilding is often so different that you just can't reconcile different universes.

    I think it's been suggested that it might be possible to fit Blake's 7 into the Trek continuity as a dystopian future, one where the Federation has turned oppressive and evil. It probably doesn't fit due to the lack of established Trek races, though. I do think it's possible to fit B7 into Doctor Who's much looser future history, though.
     
  11. Kinokima

    Kinokima Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Thanks for the Doctor Who history (I did not know when it actually came over to the States).

    I knew it was an unrealistic fantasy but it's still something I would have loved to see.

    Of course in a lot of cases Crossovers are badly written in my opinion and don't often live up to the hype.
     
  12. Lonemagpie

    Lonemagpie Writer Admiral

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    Pretty much everything fits (or not) into Dr Who equally because of its constantly-changing timelines, that are often contradicted within the series itself. (And Dr Who is in fact fictional within the show itself on a couple of occasions!)

    As for one show being fictional in another - that's less of a problem when you note that a) reality and art often cross in real life, and b) as often as not a show will be treated as real in one episode of the other franchise, and fictional in another, so you can take your pick. E.g. Trek is fictional in several Stargate episodes, but bat'leths appear in at least one...)
     
  13. Greg Cox

    Greg Cox Admiral Premium Member

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    Re: "McCloud Meets Dracula":

    Carradine played (imagine!) an elderly horror actor who was now draining the blood of innocent victims in real life. But was he just an old-time Dracula actor whom had lost his grip on reality (the rational explanation) or was he actually a vampire posing as an actor who played a vampire? At the end, he supposedly falls to his death into a river, but there was note of ambiguity about it--and, say, what's with that bat flapping away?
     
  14. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    I've never been a fan of those old '70s and '80s TV episodes where the heroes debunked a supernatural hoax but then there was a final gag that hinted "maybe it's real after all, woooo." MacGyver did it a lot in episodes where he debunked Bigfoot, UFOs, and the like. I prefer solid, unambiguous debunkings. If the writers want to say that something isn't real, they should take a stand and say it isn't real, not hedge for fear of offending anyone.

    Of course, what you're describing isn't quite the same thing, but it reminded me of that, and I've had that rant simmering in my brain for decades.
     
  15. Greg Cox

    Greg Cox Admiral Premium Member

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    I doubt if the intent is to avoid offending anyone, so much as to add a spooky little frisson at the end . . . just for fun.

    I don't think anyone watches McCloud or MaGyver to get their worldview validated. It's just fun to pretend that, ooh, maybe there really was something fantastic going on after all. It's just a cute way to work some sf/fantasy content into a mainstream show without going off the deep end . . . .
     
  16. tmclough

    tmclough Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    I seem to recall a direct reference to Star Trek itself. I believe, though I'm not positive, that somebody was watching the show, probably in the 1970s.
     
  17. Cybersnark

    Cybersnark Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    There's a Trek-as-TV reference in The Rings of Time, when Zoe speculates about "sexy green girls."

    Personally, I like to think that Titan: Synthesis is a covert Transformers crossover. The Sentries believe that FirstGen Zero-One was destroyed in slipspace, but what if it simply decanted into another universe?

    It would immediately cast about for signs of the Null, and, finding none, would produce a batch of SecondGen, programmed to keep vigilant watch for the destroyer --the physical incarnation of Chaos. It would then go dormant to conserve power.

    Aeons later, this initial programming has drifted into legend and myth, and ultimately the SecondGen turn on themselves in a civil war. . .
     
  18. Darth Duck

    Darth Duck Commodore Commodore

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    With all the Yoyodyne references sprinkled about on dedication plaques can we make V and The Crying of Lot 49 fit? Could Trystero have played a role in the founding of Section 31?
     
  19. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    Well, in-universe that could be a reference to other science fiction, since ST never had a monopoly on green alien women. After all, it's a natural extension of the "little green men" trope that's been around since the early 20th century. There was a green alien temptress who appeared in two Lost in Space episodes, for example.


    Well, those are meant more as references to Buckaroo Banzai, which in turn referenced Yoyodyne.
     
  20. sojourner

    sojourner Admiral Admiral

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    This one is actually pretty easy to reconcile. The original L&O was a tv show in the In Plain Sight universe, it just never had a spin off called Criminal Intent.
     

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