sf/f TV development news - 2013

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by Temis the Vorta, Oct 10, 2011.

  1. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    GoT is based on a series of books that has multiple POV characters and lots of sex and violence. So if it's complicated with too many characters and plotlines or has too much nudity and gore, blame the source material.
     
  2. sojourner

    sojourner Admiral Admiral

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    Ah, Ok, your opinion. Guess what? It's a minority opinion.
     
  3. stj

    stj Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    The mediaevalish background reeks so much I can't watch the series. Also, people being mean isn't so entertaining, if you don't identify with the villains at least. So it's not that minority an opinion even here.

    And although the series has a fairly high viewership for premium cable, I don't think it even gets a majority of HBO subscribers. It certainly doesn't seem to have inspired a lemming-like rush to buy HBO amongst the millions. In the whole context, Game of Thrones is still a minority taste.
     
  4. Out Of My Vulcan Mind

    Out Of My Vulcan Mind Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Game of Thrones currently has HBO's second biggest audience (after True Blood) and is HBO's biggest moneymaker in worldwide revenue.
     
  5. Temis the Vorta

    Temis the Vorta Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    And as far as being a "creative failure," Hollywood measures that sort of thing in Emmy nominations & wins, maybe the Globes count for something too despite being widely regarded as a drunken travesty, and the various guild awards are certainly respected. GoT has not done too poorly in that regards.
     
  6. Bob The Skutter

    Bob The Skutter Complete Arse Cleft Premium Member

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    Apparently the latest ratings put it over 5.3m on HBO and over 1.3m on Sky, plus over a million illegal downloads in 2 days. I'd say it's fairly popular.
     
  7. Out Of My Vulcan Mind

    Out Of My Vulcan Mind Vice Admiral Admiral

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    The second season of Game of Thrones averaged 11.6 million viewers per episode in the US with repeats and HBO Go factored in. This season should rise to more than 12 million viewers per episode.
     
  8. Temis the Vorta

    Temis the Vorta Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    For comparison purposes, on NBC Grimm is getting about 5M viewers with Revolution getting 6M and both are solid for renewal. GoT requires a pricey subscription yet gets twice the numbers as a successful show on free TV. And piracy of the show is off the charts. Yeah, it's popular and a critical success.
     
  9. Out Of My Vulcan Mind

    Out Of My Vulcan Mind Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Speaking of HBO, Vulture has news about The Leftovers:

     
  10. stj

    stj Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    There seems to be some confusion about what the widest context is.

    Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HBO

    As I surmised, Game of Thrones doesn't even get a majority of the HBO subscriber base. I was surprised to find that True Blood is #1. Game of Thrones wild popularity hasn't even made HBO the #1 premium cable, which turns out to be Encore. In my home, Encore is packaged with HBO. It and True Blood have kept HBO on the bill. And if the new showrunner on True Blood isn't up to it, HBO will be losing a subscriber.

    Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nielsen_ratings

    Lowballing the number of people per household at one, Game of Thrones is getting 10%.

    There also seems to be some confusion between artistic success and popular success. Vox populi tells us Game of Thrones is doing something right to entertain lots of people. I suggest sex and violence is the main sell, as is usually the case with the supposedly better writing on cable. I wasn't a medievalist but I knew enough not to swallow the Game of Thrones' society as grounded in human reality, instead of old melodramas. I suspect there series is much more compelling to people who know even less than I.
     
  11. Out Of My Vulcan Mind

    Out Of My Vulcan Mind Vice Admiral Admiral

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    The entertainment marketplace is now so fragmented that even the most successful shows aren't watched by 80-90% of the US population. Game of Thrones is a commercial hit, one of the biggest on cable. That's a fact. It's also largely been well-reviewed by critics. If any particular individual disagrees and thinks the show is a creative failure, well, knock yourself out.
     
  12. sojourner

    sojourner Admiral Admiral

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    I'm sorry, are you trying to argue that's a small number of viewers? :lol:
     
  13. BillJ

    BillJ Admiral Admiral

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    Every place I've ever lived, Encore is packaged with Starz! and Cinemax is usually packaged with HBO. :shrug:
     
  14. Temis the Vorta

    Temis the Vorta Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Bingo. Of all the shows that could be argued to be a financial or creative hit, GoT is not one of them.
     
  15. stj

    stj Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    The people who don't watch Game of Thrones is the majority of the people who could watch. Thus, the opinion that it's good is still a minority opinion. The moral of the story is not that someone needs to make innumerate posts. The moral is that most programming is now a minority taste. And that means it is crazy to try to claim creative quality on grounds only a minority disagrees. Observations about fragmented audiences and the resulting viability of niche programming are not only irrelevant, but actually reinforce the point.

    As to critical success? I've never seen a positive review that took Game of Thrones seriously enough to bother discussing the themes, the characters, the setting, the dialogue or much of anything except the sex and violence.
    But if that meets your standards for critical success, knock yourself out.
     
  16. Harvey

    Harvey Admiral Admiral

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    The A.V. Club is as useful an example as any in terms of positive criticism that takes the show more seriously than that. I believe both Slate and Salon have similar coverage each week. But, honestly, it is hard to believe you have read many reviews of the show if that is your impression of its positive feedback among critics. You seem to see what you want to see.

    A second point, worth emphasizing, is that Game of Thrones is curtrently the most pirated television series on the air. 4.3 million people downloaded the season two finale, and piracy of the third season is anticipated to be even greater than it was last year.
     
  17. stj

    stj Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I'm apparently the only one here who can identify a
    minority. You don't learn these difficult skills by selective attention. It's quite the other way around.

    I hadn't heard of AV Club. I googled, linked and clicked on the first GoT story.

    I immediately saw your point about a serious analysis of the series. :devil::rofl:

    It's true this doesn't prove a damn thing, but the irony was irresistible.

    PS A quick look at Salon found two real articles (skipping over fan discussion.) One was an indignant article blasting negative reviews of the series from Slate. Guess I'll skip looking for the deep but favorable analysis of the show there. The other was about real life evil medievals who inspired G.R.R. Martin. A goodly number are not even nedieval but Renaissance figures. I don't know if that writer didn't care, or didn't know.

    Again, this doesn't prove anything except that it was rather hasty to drivel about missing all those in depth studies littering the internet. There are actually some occasionall pieces that display a serious interest in the show. Most of them I've seen focus on the treatment of women. The thing is, the ones I've seen are rarely very favorable.
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2013
  18. Harvey

    Harvey Admiral Admiral

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    I've suggested the website to you at least once before, in a discussion about Dexter, but that was probably some time ago. (It certainly feels like it has been a long time since that series was at all worth discussing.)

    In any event, their snarky news coverage and weekly television coverage are hardly the same. Not sure what search terms you used, but "AV Club Game of Thrones" sent me directly to their reviews, not their news coverage.

    In any case, I'm not sure what point you are aiming for here. That the domestic audience for Game of Thrones is a minority of U.S. television viewers? Well, of course. I imagine if you surveyed television viewers, most would have no opinion at all about the series. But, among those that do have one, I think it's safe to say yours is the minority opinion.
     
  19. stj

    stj Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Sorry the AV Club reference escaped me before. My superficial impression is the AV Club is to io9ish for my tastes, though, so maybe I felt that way then, and promptly forgot it?

    But yes, as a matter of fact, my main point is that the series' fans are a minority. This might seem blindingly obvious but if you inspect the responses above, it either isn't, or is too embarrassing.

    But is it really safe to assume that my negative opinion is a minority opinion. Is it really likely that there is anyone in the HBO subscription base that hasn't had the opportunity to form an opinion of Game of Thrones? Most of them have it coming into their homes along with True Blood and all the rest of the HBO programming. I think that it is not a bit safe to assume the majority of subscribers who don't watch the show neglect to do so because they foolishly failed to form an opinion at all. I think we can more safely say that, yes, as a matter of fact, they formed a negative one.

    The safest thing of all to say is that equating popularity and artistic success is a risky business. Trying to deprive the terms minority and maority of any numerical meaning only compounds the error.
     
  20. BillJ

    BillJ Admiral Admiral

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    I don't watch it, but Game of Thrones is obviously a monster hit by any modern standard.
     

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