Seska's poor unamed lost baby

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Voyager' started by teacake, Sep 25, 2012.

  1. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    IF the Doctor had never told Seska that the baby was not Chakotay's then Cullah would have left that baby on Voyager alongside the body of his dead mother. All it took was for the Doctor to have decided to keep that information to himself for strategic reasons or for Seska to have not brought the baby in for a check up in the midst of her hostile boarding and acquisition of Voyager.

    Such a small set of events.. without them they would have found the infant in Janeway's ready room. Would they have kept him because he was half Cardassian and so from their quadrant? Or would they have returned him to Cullah if possible?

    Since Cullah agreed to have his lover impregnate herself with another man's child for the sake of luring Voyager into a trap I suspect Janeway would have declared him a hostile and unfit father and taken the baby with her. Naomi would have had someone to grow up with. Hopefully the Cardassian smarts would have been dominant.

    Still, if the child IS of Cardassian level intelligence he has a great future as a leader of the Kazon.
     
  2. R. Star

    R. Star Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I dunno, I always thought that the Voyager writers were kinda lame for pushing the proverbial reset button even with the baby. Can't have a lasting plot effect with long term consequences after all. I almost wonder if the Doctor just told Seska that to screw with her head as a little payback.

    I do wonder if Culluh would have bothered raising the child. Sure he took it with him, but I could easily see him growing angry at it as a reminder of his defeat and loss and end up sending it to those slave mines. Though yes, it's equally possible that Jal Cardassian grows up to amount to something.

    Having another kid with Naomi might be interesting, but then again I guess pulling the quick growing up trick with two children would be a bit redundant. Besides, Voyager's future track record with certain Borg babies being known, the kid could be better off with Culluh.
     
  3. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Seska told Cullah that Chakoaty had raped her while she was still back on Voyager.

    Cullah was fine with raising Chakotay's child.
     
  4. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Oh I forgot about the rape accusation.. Seska was pretty pissed off with the information though.

    He may have been fine about her having Chak's child but it doesn't mean he would have raised Chak's child or taken him when Seska was dead. She would have sold him on how to use the development as a way to lure Voyager.
     
  5. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I just get the feeling that fidelity and consent are not a big part of Kazon sexual politics that, frankly when a girl says "this one is yours" the bloke shrugs his shoulders and says "Meh, it could be worse?"
     
  6. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Plus they are too stupid to do DNA tests.

    Even if, presumably, Cullah has been told the baby is his his men will have known all this time that the baby is not Kazon. They've known that for months as a fact so Cullah's sudden announcement that a human hologram on the side of their prey has, in the midst of sabotaging their glorious agenda, announced that the baby is Cullah's will mean NOTHING. Why should they believe that? Cullah will be nagged by his grudging respect of Seska's intelligence to believe it if she did but that baby will go back Kazon society with a huge cloud of doubt hanging over its head.
     
  7. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Did the doctor lie to protect the baby?

    besides, the Doctor only said that it was Kazon DNA, not specifically Cullahs.

    Seska didn't sleep around because it was fun.

    She slept around to control her pawns.

    That lady had a lot of pawns.
     
  8. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I don't mean the baby will have a cloud hanging over its head as to whether it is Cullah's but whether it is Kazon at all.

    Janeway was willing to go after this baby to save it when she thought it was Chak's but she's happy to never mention it again when she found out it was only Seska's.
     
  9. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    If Cullah notices any cloud he'll begin a bloody purge, even if he has doubts himself.

    Denial is not just a river in Egypt.

    The Doctor showed Seska scans of the baby.

    Did he fake the results before showing it to Seska or has she no aptitude for medicine?
     
  10. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I can't think of any reason for the Doctor to have lied. It seems like there is going to be a reason but they don't do anything with it so I think they had to have that scene so they could never talk about the baby again.

    Why should Cullah bother with this child if he has any doubts? Why would he not have doubts, he's realized Seska was manipulative.

    Really my point is there are a hundred ways this baby's life could be a crapfest aside from the assumed crapfest that is normal Kazon life. And Janeway did not care. Once it was no longer Chak's she lost all investment in its well being.
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2012
  11. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Because he loves Seka and this is all he has left of her.

    A MEMORIAL.

    Because he's loved this kid since it was inside her and being out side of her doesn't change his heart's momentum.

    Remember My name is earl?

    "I can't blame my son because his mother is a whore"

    (that can't be the line from the pilot when Earl found a black child climbing out of his wife... but he stayed!)

    Meanwhile the Doctor was lying his ass off as he was directing Suder to go out and kill people and sabotage shit while he was hiding kazon bodies in his stasis draws.

    His lie mode was totally on.
     
  12. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    If you're talking about Culluh? I doubt it. Culluh, like all Kazon, doesn't love.

    Look at how Kazon treat women. Little more than slaves. And that is basically how Culluh treated Seska. I dare you to look at any scenes with those two interacting, and then tell me that he actually loved her. :rolleyes:

    It's just a good thing the child is male. Otherwise it would have no rights in Kazon society.
     
  13. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Love is not one thing.
     
  14. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    ^ The difference is, we know from experience that Madred was lying. All we know of the Kazon are what we saw on the show. And you can't show me even one scene where women were treated as anything other than dogshit in Kazon society.
     
  15. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    SESKA: Hello, everyone. What do you think of your son, Chakotay? He has your eyes, don't you think? Thank goodness he doesn't look too human. You all have such weak foreheads.
    CHAKOTAY: May he grow up never knowing the contempt his father has for his mother.
    CULLUH: I think I can assure you of that, Commander. I intend to take him for my own son.

    So there is that. Perhaps Kazon society has a tradition of taking on male children as a part of your "house".
     
  16. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Seska is a loophole, because she isn't a kazon female, they can treat her like a man they can have sex with... Not that we have any idea how they feel about homosexuality, that there arn't plenty of men that male Kazon already enjoy having sex with.

    He wants to forgive her impertinence because he loves her. Which is why they had sex instead of Cullah sending that Cardassian spook out for a flogging.

    Seska doesn't love him.

    He's just her work husband.

    It's her job to make him love her.

    She's more intelligent and devious than he is.

    To say that he wasn't in love with her as strongly as she needed him to be, to get the job done means that she was letting the side down.and that he was smarter and more complicated than we gave him credit for.

    Love and respect are different stuff too.

    But she couldn't hold her position without having him tied around her finger, even if he was just giving her slack so that he could enjoy the ride before he had to space her.

    But you can tell that she was also planning on having him killed first.

    So what's worse, a backward thug who might as well be from the 1850s expressing love in so far as his concepts of love and freedom permit, or a fully actualized postpostpostmodern liberated woman who can't stop lying very very well?
     
  17. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I bet she was the most amazing and fascinating thing that had ever happened to him.
     
  18. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Becuase Kazon women are not allowed to grow into real people like she had?
     
  19. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Because Kazons are rednecks and Seska is a woman who has seen many worlds, lived as two different species, been skilled enough to manipulate many lovers with diverse needs (can't get more diverse than different species).. she would have blown his dim little mind all the while making him feel like she was his acquisition that showed everyone how hot he was.
     
  20. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Well all that has always been true.

    So how couldn't he be in love with her?

    Although, they're not rednecks, you know that they were designed as an allegory for the LA gang problems, which is probably based on a couple views of New Jack City and/or Boyz in the Hood.