Sell me on Kes.

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Voyager' started by Plomeek Broth, Feb 20, 2014.

  1. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2000
    Location:
    In the lap of squalor I assure you.
    The EMH who has to routinely extract grape fruit sized orange hairballs from crew who eat to much in the Mess, almost has enough racially specific surgical waste to create another Neelix.
     
  2. TheGoodStuff

    TheGoodStuff Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2013
    Location:
    Scotland
    What a gross misjudgement of the character. Insulting to those who enjoyed her.

    Unlike Data/Spock and their longing to be human/stoic logic etc Seven was deeper. She is human and she had it robbed from her. She explores her humanity and reconnects with what it means to be human.

    I found her journey deep and meaningful and frequently moving. She truly is a victim...and she only barely realizes it.

    Also, Jeri Ryan was fantastic in the role and provide one of the strongest performances in the franchise. I certainly dont think that deserves to be belittled.
     
  3. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2000
    Location:
    In the lap of squalor I assure you.
    What Jeri was given, and what Jeri did what she was given is different.

    Same for what the later writers were given by the network suits that said "You want a Borg dude? Nah. Too much sausage already. Put tits on that idea and come back to us."

    Stop trying to pick a fight.
     
  4. TheGoodStuff

    TheGoodStuff Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2013
    Location:
    Scotland

    Nobody is picking a fight. You led with "if you fell for that shit" etc, seemingly implying that its stupid to like the character. She was great on the show and the character had real depth. Simplifying her to just breasts and nothing else is silly.

    Of course she is attractive, that is not a new thing for TV. However her performance was great.
     
  5. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2000
    Location:
    In the lap of squalor I assure you.
    I didn't simplify Jeri to her to breasts.

    It was the search for humanity, the Borg and her breasts.

    You chose to edit that clarification out to make your case.

    Which is what I call picking a fight.
     
  6. TheGoodStuff

    TheGoodStuff Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2013
    Location:
    Scotland
    Everything I bolded [including the mentioning of her breasts] is just derogatory to those who like her.

    I think having such a condescending attitude to people who liked Seven/Jeri is provocative of a fight. Calling people sheep and what she was 'shit to be fallen for' is a smidge provocative no?
     
  7. 2takesfrakes

    2takesfrakes Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2013
    Location:
    Philadelphia, PA
    [​IMG]
     
  8. bbjeg

    bbjeg Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    May 24, 2013
    Location:
    Right here buddy.
    Guy Gardener's right with Seven being more of an equation than an original character, though his delivery could have been less harsh, but that's just Guy Gardener. He did mention Jeri Ryan's performance shined so aside from the pretty face, the breast, and the catsuit (was that a Borg corset under that), he states other likable qualities. I too were one of the sceptics who disliked Seven initially because I knew what game they were playing at (it was UPN) and I understand TheGoodStuff's argument. Jeri made me like the character, not her tits. They didn't hurt though.

    Back to the OT, I think if they matured Kes faster (not just her abilities, but physically adding more makeup throughout the season), her character would have stood out more. Every year, she should have aged something like 10 human years.
     
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2014
  9. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2000
    Location:
    In the lap of squalor I assure you.
    Obviously you have the comprehension skills of a squirrel.

    It's not your fault, but it's dangerous for you to go on the internet.

    Do not give your bank account details to anyone.
     
  10. Lynx

    Lynx Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2001
    Location:
    Lynx Empire
    "The Black Shore" has always been and will remain my favorite Trek novel and I've always seen that book as a good example that it is possible to write good stories for Kes. In the book, all of Kes's great abilities are seen. Her certain powers, her will and determination to find the answer of a mystery, no matter what, how brave she can be while facing the unknown and also her compassion.

    But not only that, in the book ALL the main characters get their fair share of action, the story is very exciting from beginning to end and the crew encounters a hostile race which makes the Borg look like a class of well-behaved schoolchildren.

    And yes, I really like the interaction between Kes and B'Elanna. It's a pity that we didn't seen so much of that in the TV episodes.

    As for me, I remember when I first read the book. I read it from beginning to end without any other pause than for making coffee. It was simply too exciting. Fortunately, it was a Saturday so I had no work and other things which could distract me from reading. I've re-read it a couple of time since then and I still find it very exciting and well-written. :bolian:
     
  11. Lynx

    Lynx Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2001
    Location:
    Lynx Empire
    :guffaw:

    Well, maybe we should be happy that this scenario only took place in an alternate reality.
     
  12. Lynx

    Lynx Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2001
    Location:
    Lynx Empire
    Well, talk about how certain events affect different peoples lives. I dislike the episode because it took away my favorite character and you like it because it gave you a favorite character.

    Life is strange, isn't it? :confused:
     
  13. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2007
    Location:
    inside teacake
    The episode was shit. I rewatch 7 eps all the time but that one, no.
     
  14. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2000
    Location:
    In the lap of squalor I assure you.
    Back when I had things on VHS, and they were put on there in sometimes a random and predictable order... No, you have the DVDs, and you want the Blurays, and if half the crew started doing Voyager Dinner Theatre, you'd sell your soul for air fair...

    Actually cherry picking through the dvds for this particular 7 and only this particular, at best I would think it is a drinking game (so is breathing a drinking game for an Australian) at worst, some sort of last 6 episodes of M*A*S*H* trauma resulting in a season three of Lost OCD sort of thing, where the world will end if you don't keep watching those seven episodes.

    (I can so see Wang being sued by paramount for being Harry Kim during a dinner theatre play and losing his shirt.)
     
  15. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2007
    Location:
    inside teacake
    7 not seven.

    My VHS tapes were all bought used from a video rental place and some were so given to snow and rolling that there were whole scenes I swear I saw for the first time when I finally got the dvds.
     
  16. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2000
    Location:
    In the lap of squalor I assure you.
    Even though I get it now, you're still saying the same thing.
     
  17. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2007
    Location:
    inside teacake
    Yeeess.. watching the same thing, saying the same thing. We're all just one big circle of life deal. Cud cud cud cud.
     
  18. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2000
    Location:
    In the lap of squalor I assure you.
    I was explaining to an 8 year old yesterday that all our drinking water used to be pee and dead people.

    The circle of life.
     
  19. bbjeg

    bbjeg Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    May 24, 2013
    Location:
    Right here buddy.
    Am I really the only one talking about Kes in a Kes thread? Sheash!
     
  20. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2007
    Location:
    inside teacake
    I have the subject lines on the BBS hidden so I miss details like what the thread is about.