Sell me on Kes.

Discussion in 'Voyager' started by Plomeek Broth, Feb 20, 2014.

  1. Akiraprise

    Akiraprise Vice Admiral Moderator

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    There must have been some plan for Kes in season 4. I do not know if it has ever been stated that there was though. If I remember correctly she was not slated to go until the last minute. Did Harry substitute for Kes in the beginning of the season? Interesting...
     
  2. Gov Kodos

    Gov Kodos Admiral Admiral

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    You could be dealing with a Tukes thread.
     
  3. bbjeg

    bbjeg Admiral Admiral

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    That definitely would have made Voyager more daring and much more interesting, so long as she doesn't melt someone's face again.
     
  4. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    It's interesting to me that story decisions are made all the time on how to include boy/girl tension, flirting, banter scenes but it's up to the fandom to find that in subtext for same gender interactions. Maybe if that had been on the table someone would have said.. here we have two characters who are on one level children but on another far above the rest of the humans on the ship via experiences absorbed (7) and ability to learn (Kes). Let's put them together and see if this results in an attraction.
     
  5. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    There is no subtext in Star Trek.

    Just different sized hammers.
     
  6. Lynx

    Lynx Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I totally agree, even if I do think there could have been room for Harry as well. Had it been so difficult to have 10 main characters considering how characters like Naomi, Vorik and later on Icheb almost became main characters? Those actors didn't work for nothing either.
     
  7. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Alexander couldn't squeeze more than ten episodes out of his mother despite the usual threats of holding his breath and denying her grandchildren, so what hope did anyone else have?

    When they sent away the Borg twins was that a writers room decision? Take all the Borg kids, see who we want to write about most and then decide which half to get rid of? Did Azan and Rebi have a fighting chance of where they predoomed to be kessed?
     
  8. bbjeg

    bbjeg Admiral Admiral

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    It's believable how the Borg kids were written off but if the plan was to dump them from the start, at least they got some time on the air.
     
  9. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    The Borg can travel at transwarp speed across the entire galaxy in hours, but years after their capture and assimilation, Voyager paddling around at regular warp, found the mommies and daddies of not just the twins and Icheb, but apparently the baby too.

    What the fuck happened to "The Borg assimilate civilizations, not individuals"?

    It almost makes you wonder if Mezoti's parents turned the lights off, crouched down, and pretended not to be home when Voyager tried to give her back.
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2014
  10. bbjeg

    bbjeg Admiral Admiral

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    ^Yeah, it was a lame coincidence.
     
  11. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    The Borg are sloppy, they crash around a vessel smashing stuff up and ripping stuff out and assimilating as an afterthought anyone in their way except for the ones that get killed during all the smashing up part. Once they've got the tech they want they piss off back to the cube. I would imagine there would often be survivors of these snatch and grab events. Yes if they are going to take an entire planet it will be much more thorough but still you will get those that are offworld or manage to get offworld and are let go as the resources needed to acquire them are being used elsewhere.
     
  12. bbjeg

    bbjeg Admiral Admiral

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    The Borg are single minded. Their lack of abstract thought makes them simple but there's a method to their madness (a chaotic neutral madness).
     
  13. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    The Borg would not be very happy that you said they were chaotic neutral :lol:

    BQ about individuals assimilated: They've left behind their trivial, selfish lives, and they've been reborn with a greater purpose. We've delivered them from chaos into order.
     
  14. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    When the Doctor took over Seven in Flesh and Blood, was that because the Borg hard wired her interface to the drone to be submissive, or is Anika just weak?
     
  15. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    She was so used to the state of being assimilated that the EMH had eaten three whole cheesecakes before she even registered it had happened.
     
  16. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I was thinking that the personality we met is an emergency autopilot for when there is no no signal collect to the collective.

    The primary Anika personality, the 8 year old, would be relaxing in a unimatrix, do what the Borg make 8 year olds do.

    Whatever ghost is left behind in the meat of the little girl grown into a woman is not the perfect mind that the Borg assimilated and incorporated into group architecture.

    It's a question of can the digital copy of the 8 year olds personality grow up as a living entity now that it's disconnected from flesh (drop vs. ocean. The AI might be alive but that doesn't mean that every cog and component (individual personality.) is also alive in microcosm.) or is it 8 forever, or does the Borg keep take snapshots of Aika at different points in her growth evolutions from 8 to Borgette.
     
  17. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Well we've seen what happens to drones in situations like that: they begin to revert to their original personalities. Such as Two, Three and Four (of Nine) in "Survival Instinct." They regained their identities pretty quickly...although they weren't Borg for anywhere near as long as Seven was.
     
  18. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Hugh from I, Borg, we assumed had been assimilated as a baby.

    I meant to type Signal connect, not signal collect.

    (Like what your monitor says when the plug in the back of your tower comes loose.)

    Funny how the mind works.
     
  19. exodus

    exodus Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I assumed Huge wasn't Borg for very long when the Enterprise found him, considering he didn't resist his captors the way Seven did. His brainwashing didn't seem to run as deep as someone that had grown up Borg. Huge seemed happy just being fed.
    Some threat he was.
     
  20. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    That would mean that you thought that the Borg went to the effort of copying lives only to erase them. Either Hughs life was so fantastic that his planet was put to the sword to get it, or it was so valueless that it was inconsequential chum caught in the Borg War machine taking over the Galaxy.

    Do the Borg brainwash or educate?

    When the Borg talk, it's not one Drones opinion, it's all of them in consensus....

    Consensus or majority?

    Imagine if initiate assimilies have an equal vote as every one else to create change but not the numbers, however the longer they spend inside the collective the nicer it seems.

    The Borg Queen kinda fucks up this later season TNG era assumption.

    I didn't think that Hugh was brain washed, just that he had never experienced a different opinion (or never remembered experienceing a different opinion...) other than the Borg agenda, which was benevolent and charitable bringing the gift of assimilation to all the down trodden, no different than missionaries bringing the voice of god across the globe today.

    Although if I was to take something from your recognition of the facts Exodus, I might think it's possible that Hugh had been wiped clean, perhaps because he wouldn't get with the program, or just a glitch, but the ease with which he befriended Geordie and helped the Federation screw over his species, says that he was not forcefully programmed to be unreasonably loyal to the Borg.

    Hugh was only reasonably loyal to the Borg.