Sell me on Kes.

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Voyager' started by Plomeek Broth, Feb 20, 2014.

  1. Plomeek Broth

    Plomeek Broth Commander Red Shirt

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    I have tried and tried to come around on her and I just can't. I find the character bland and the actress wooden. Please help me look at the positives about all things Kes and maybe I can change my perspective on the character. Currently makes me cringe thinking about watching an episode in seasons one through three.
     
  2. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    This is in such poor taste!

    You can't use words like "sell" when talking about ex-slaves.
     
  3. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    The sweetness.. never did it for me. Sweet is Quark being sweet against his better judgement, not "oh I am just sweet because I was born that way". I actually couldn't stand her for the first few viewings of VOY but I am now meh about her.

    But I'm sure someone else will be able to help you out :lol:
     
  4. Pondwater

    Pondwater Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I didn't like her at first and for a while. But upon re-watching for the umpteenth time, I've upgraded to that she's alright. A little too sweet though.
     
  5. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    Kes is amazing. She's less than two years old when we meet her, but from the beginning she projects the wisdom, serenity, and self-possession of a Vulcan elder, but with deep compassion as well. She was victimized, but didn't let it break her spirit or dull her joy at discovering new things, her willingness to reach out to people and inspire them.

    I wouldn't say she was "sweet," not in a Disney-saccharine way. She was kind and caring and gentle, but with an underlying poise and dignity that I found very impressive.

    Granted, the writers largely wasted her character by keeping her stuck in sickbay; with her short lifespan, she should've been devouring life, eager to expand her horizons and discover everything while she could. We did see some of that in season 3, though. And she had a great rapport with Janeway, really bringing out the captain's maternal side.

    And "wooden"? I can't understand that reaction. Jennifer Lien did a superb job, controlled but sincere. She did a great job when given a chance to stretch; her performance as Tieran in "Warlord" was nicely menacing and an impressive departure from her usual performance. I can't remember ever being disappointed in her acting. And she had a really beautiful voice that I just loved listening to. (She had a brief career as a voice actress after Voyager. You should hear her as Agent L in Men in Black: The Series -- an incredibly sultry and sexy vocal performance.)

    And when they finally let her ditch the pixie wig and use her real hair in season 3, she looked magnificent. Particularly in that black catsuit with the velvety fabric.
     
  6. Plomeek Broth

    Plomeek Broth Commander Red Shirt

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    Thanks Christopher for your thoughts that was excellent and insightful.
     
  7. CorporalCaptain

    CorporalCaptain Admiral Admiral

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    I always liked Kes. She was pleasant and beautiful, and I agree that her voice was magnificent.

    Kes is sort of like a hybrid of the Manic Pixie Dream Girl, but without the Mania, and the Mary Sue, but without the overbearing or (I'm assuming) author avatar parts.

    One of the points where Voyager approached distinction, in terms of the drama it brought to the table, was the flirtation that Tom and Kes had. I consider it a missed opportunity that VOY couldn't bring itself to depict Tom and Kes having an affair, at least outside the fig leaf of an alternate future. Flawed characters, thy name is not Star Trek.
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2014
  8. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    During mating season, glue comes out of her hands, so that Kes can adhere to a lover for at least 50 hours until she is fertilized.
     
  9. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    ^Suddenly I like her a LOT better.
     
  10. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Neelix doesn't deserve to get stabbed in the back like that.
     
  11. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    You're right. She should have dumped Neelix first.
     
  12. CorporalCaptain

    CorporalCaptain Admiral Admiral

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    Of course he doesn't. That's drama. I'll eat my shorts if there wasn't a person who watched Voyager who cheated on his or her partner/spouse (with ketchup and mustard to help them go down).
     
  13. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    If kes had cheated, Neelix would have murdered people.
     
  14. CorporalCaptain

    CorporalCaptain Admiral Admiral

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    I think he would have bawled and had a breakdown, at least.
     
  15. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    But Kes is all fluffy and innocent and kind and wise and empathetic and sympathetic and selfless and full of encouragement and care! She couldn't stab Neelix in the back with an affair, she just couldn't.. which is why she is so boring.
     
  16. hux

    hux Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    In fiction, as in life....nice people are a bit dull. Experienced writers know this so i can only assume they had an arc for Kes that would lead to something interesting but they obviously didn't know how to do that and gave up on it (occasionally they hinted at giving her a Troi type role)

    She lacked sexuality and that's never good for a character either (made worse by her association with Neelix) a bit of sexual tension with.....Seska? maybe? that would have been spicy

    I think Jennifer Lien is good though (she showed that in Warlord) but if the writers give you a character that's a stinker, there's not much you can do
     
  17. 2takesfrakes

    2takesfrakes Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    When B'Elanna died in another timeline, Kes came to Tom's rescue, helping him cope with the mental anguish. She helped Tom recognize that he could and would move on - that he'd learn to fall in love, again ... because he can.

    [​IMG]

    Of course, she was totally right. Tom did find love, again - and so did she: with eachother!

    In fact, this episode had Kes - and the audience - review her life on Voyager, up to that point and it became clear that Kes, was indeed, more important than we realized. Because this type of support she showed not just for Tom, but the rest of the crew, is so typical of Kes. And it was vital to several characters' development on the show, particularly the EMH. In fact, the Doctor would've been incapable of offering much guidance to Seven, whatsoever, had it not been for Kes' patience, warmth and friendship.

    Kes seemed to have a very good rapport with the good Captain and she was very loyal to Janeway, besides. In my view, Kes was Janeway's guide ... and her conscience. She wasn't just "all heart," either. No. Kes had a strength. In her was a power I can't pretend to understand, but one which Tuvok tried to help her master. And, because of her unique life-cyle, Kes never lost her sense of wonder at the world around her and, in fact, the entire universe. Something too easily lost and even dismissed, by most of us, in our own lives.

    Unfortunately, the writers wrote all of this off in favour of a fanboy fantasy woman of the bimbo variety. :borg:
     
  18. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    They did. They blew her up.

    BOY DO I EVER AGREE. Just totally lacking in sex appeal, sexuality, sexiness.. unless you fancy wide eyed sweetness and innocence which frankly icks me out when you pair it with sex appeal. Now they could have fixed that, a person can be sweet AND sexy (Ezri comes to mind) but for whatever reason they just didn't seem to know what to do with her.

    I like your Seska suggestion :lol: NO really, I think that might have played well, I could see Kes trying to help her and finding herself more and more drawn to her. Seska was way smarter than Neelix and not bound by Starfleet stodge, Kes might have found her a little breathtaking..

    Yes. Warlord is always a shock because the acting is great, Lien really has fun with it and it's such a shame they couldn't just LEAVE IN some of that character via magic technobabble. That would have been fun and interesting and they could have played with the gender thing too.
     
  19. 2takesfrakes

    2takesfrakes Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    The original poster asked to be "sold on" Kes. Let's try to be a little more positive, people! :techman:
     
  20. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Okay..

    1. Failed at being another ear alien so we got long hair which apparently many people liked.

    2. Endless opportunity to bash Harry because he married her daughter in creepy Woody Allen kinda move.

    3. Warlord Hotness!!!!

    [​IMG]

    4. Eating for two scene was funny especially when she moved onto the flowers..

    [​IMG]