Section 31...

Discussion in 'General Trek Discussion' started by 2 of 10, Oct 21, 2008.

  1. 2 of 10

    2 of 10 Captain Captain

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    In the episode of DS-9 "Inquisition" Slone mentions to Bashir that Section 31 has been part of the Federation since it's original charter. Does anyone recall any mention of Section 31 in any other Trek Series or Films.

    It does make sence that the Federation would have it's own Internal Intelligence Branch. The Romulans have the Tal-Shair, and the Cardassians have the Obsidian Order. It would seem to me that it would be a bit nieve for the Federation to not have internal security of it own.
     
  2. Nerys Ghemor

    Nerys Ghemor Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I believe that there was never any mention of Section 31 prior to DS9. Any suggestions that they were there would be speculative at best. (Except VOY/ENT.)
     
  3. Sheliak

    Sheliak Commodore Commodore

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    "Is there a John-Luck Pickard here?" Tapestry

    :)
     
  4. dave_R_treker

    dave_R_treker Captain Captain

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    Nothing to my knowlage was mentioned prior to this episode. There are books that take place prior to this episode. And also the few episodes of Enterprise that had section 31 in it. But like I said, nothing prior to the actual airing of the episode.
     
  5. Sector 7

    Sector 7 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    No mention of it.... because...
    Section 31 is a SECRET organization, duh!
     
  6. USS Excelsior

    USS Excelsior Commodore Commodore

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    The episode "Divergence" in ENT features Section 31 with an agent named Harris that secretly gives Malcolm orders and ultimately lands him in the brig. Harris would also appear in "Demons".
     
  7. T'Cal

    T'Cal Commodore Commodore

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    Then let's speculate! I would guess that Adm. Pressman was working with if not a part of S31. While there was no indication that Shelby was, had she stuck around, I can easily imagine her as an operative of S31. Also, rather than kill off Yar, she would've made a fine member as well. Paris might've made a good one, too, reluctant like Bashir and Reed but capable.
     
  8. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Admiral Admiral

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    The novels have had a field day with Section 31. Off the top of my head, they have said that the events of Insurrection and the TOS episode The Enterprise Incident were Section 31 operations.

    Of course, novels are not canon.
     
  9. All Seeing Eye

    All Seeing Eye Admiral

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    What I always couldn't quite fathom was whether or not Admiral Ross was a Section 31 operative or whether he was just reluctantly sucked into that particular situation. (I'm talking about the episode where they go to Romulus.)
     
  10. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Admiral Admiral

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    I was under the impression that he relunctantly allowed himself to be duped into becoming their shit-pawn.
     
  11. LutherSloan

    LutherSloan Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    The only canon mentions of S31 occur on Enterprise and DS9.
     
  12. Ethros

    Ethros Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Been a while since I watched the relevant eps of ENT. Is the group actually referred to as "Section 31" in those eps?
     
  13. USS Excelsior

    USS Excelsior Commodore Commodore

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    One time it was referenced as "Article 14, Section 31" to explain and justify their existence in what they were getting involved with and how.
     
  14. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    So was that whole thing in ST 6.

    And Admiral Pressman was obviously Section 31 as well. It's not in a novel that I'm aware of, but...he just *acts* like Section 31.

    They do, although I believe it's a part of Starfleet. The difference is, Starfleet Intelligence is an entirely legal, above-board, open organization, with government oversight. They must answer to the Starfleet chain of command, and to the Federation at large.

    Section 31, on the other hand, answers TO NO ONE. Not even the Federation President! They are totally secret, totally amoral. Organizations like that have no business existing.
     
  15. Sector 7

    Sector 7 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    ...but they do... even in the US. CIA, NSA.. and even more ominous groups DO exist.
     
  16. LutherSloan

    LutherSloan Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Yes, it was revealed that people like Admiral Cartwright, Colonel West, and Valeris were at least working in concert with a Section 31 operation.

    Although, it makes less sense for it to be an S31 operation, seeing that they tried to end the Dominion War more quickly with the Founder Virus, and wanted to delay a war between Earth and Romulus for as long as possible.

    The entire Insurrection story seemed like a perfect S31 operation as well, and it was later revealed in a ST novel that this was the case.

    IIRC, at first on ENT the organization was just referred to as 'the agency', but we later learned that this was clearly Section 31, after Harris mentioned that it was in the United Earth Charter Article 14, Section 31 (or was it the Starfleet Charter?).
     
  17. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Those groups are nowhere near the level of Section 31.
     
  18. Nardpuncher

    Nardpuncher Rear Admiral

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    :confused::confused::confused:
     
  19. Nerys Ghemor

    Nerys Ghemor Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Thank you. I was just getting ready to have to explain that the comparison with them is more like Starfleet Intelligence: there IS government oversight on them, whether some here would like to admit it or not.
     
  20. Timo

    Timo Admiral Admiral

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    Generally speaking, I'd like to argue that virtually none of the shadow jobs in Star Trek are the doing of Section 31 - not even most of those that S31 claims are its doing.

    Outsorcing evil to a bunch of others, to a cigarette-smoking, well-manicured cabal , is both extremely unrealistic and dramatically extremely unsatisfactory. Evil is us. We are the ones who travel the paved road to hell. And some of us like to take credit for doing the paving - but the good intentions of S31 need not really be the ones that result in the evil consequences. Those consequences may come to be without conscious effort on the part of devious masterminds, and indeed usually do.

    Timo Saloniemi
     

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