Section 31 after DS9

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Deep Space Nine' started by Tom, Nov 1, 2012.

  1. Tom

    Tom Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2003
    Location:
    In your Mind!
    So I was thinking of writing some post-DS9 (maybe abut 10-15 years after) fan fiction.

    I was thinking about doing something with Section 31but some questions popped up. After Sloan died we were left to wonder is is Section 31 is gone? was it just Sloan?

    Lets say it was not just Sloan, if there were other involved and Starfleet officials caught up and apprehended them. Could Section 31 ever be a legit yet still secret agency with in Starfleet?

    Does section 31 have to much of a bad history (attempted genocide etc..) for Starfleet to use them in a more controlled manor?

    Should Starfleet abolish S31 and try to have some other type of black-ops agency?

    Should S31 always remain a more rogue agency that answers to no one in order to protect the Federation?
     
  2. bullethead

    bullethead Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2008
    I think it's fairly absurd to think that Sloane was all there was to Section 31. Sure, one man could've pulled the entire Changeling virus thing off, but it seems way more plausible if it's a larger operation.

    How would they find the rest of Section 31 anyway? They're not a formal organization, just a large group of like-minded and highly competent individuals working to protect the Federation. The only time you're going know of Section 31 involvement is when someone reports it and during the Dominion War, I can see a large majority of Starfleet members colluding with them and not reporting it. People like Bashir are going to be the outliers, especially along the front lines.

    For the Federation and the Starfleet higher-ups, probably yes, because they almost always put principles before pragmatism. The only times they don't are events that are easily swept under the rugs.

    No to abolishing Section 31, because like I said earlier, it's not an actual organization they can shutdown, and they already have black ops. It's called Starfleet Intelligence.

    Yes, because from what we've seen, most of the upper echelons of Starfleet Command takes forever to realize a threat until it's staring them in the face (and sometimes even after, in the case of the Borg) and doesn't take anywhere near the measures they should to combat those threats.
     
  3. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    May 10, 2005
    Location:
    The visitor's bullpen
    Section 31, by its very nature, can never be "legit". It's just as much an enemy to the Federation (despite its constant bitching that it "protects" said Federation) as any other hostile superpower.

    As for post-DS9:

    Section 31 will one day be brought down and destroyed, its members put on trial for their crimes. We don't know exactly when it will happen, only that it's in Jake and Nog's lifetimes. I look forward to reading that storyline.
     
  4. Lindley

    Lindley Moderator with a Soul Moderator

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2001
    Location:
    Bonney Lake, WA
    It makes one wonder whether, with Section 31 gone, the Federation might suddenly find itself on much dicier ground.....

    Just because their methods are distasteful doesn't mean they weren't effective!
     
  5. R. Star

    R. Star Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2012
    Location:
    Shangri-La
    To assume Sloan was the end all of Section 31 is absurd. He probably was the organization's higher ups, but they'd survive his loss easily. The Starfleet line towards Section 31 has been at every demonstrated opportunity to shake their heads, say it's terrible, say it's against everything Starfleet stands for, then turn a blind eye while they get their dirty work done. As Odo said, it's a tidy arrangement.
     
  6. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    May 10, 2005
    Location:
    The visitor's bullpen
    Then it's up to the Federation to make Starfleet Intelligence that effective - and, unlike S31, do it within the bounds of the law. Don't tell me they can't do it, either. There's nothing S31 can do illegally that SI can't do legally. And if there is, it shouldn't ever happen in the first place.
     
  7. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2008
    Location:
    #istandwithcbs
    In the forthcoming fan series pilot Star Trek: Renegades, Tim Russ is reprising his role as Tuvok, now head of the "reformed" Section 31.
     
  8. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    May 10, 2005
    Location:
    The visitor's bullpen
    ^ Oh bloody hell. :rolleyes:

    Tuvok would be one of the last Trek characters I would EVER expect to support Section 31 in any form. I'd more expect him to be leading the charge against it. In fact, in mainstream Treklit, I wouldn't be surprised if he actually did have a part in Section 31's demise.
     
  9. Hartzilla2007

    Hartzilla2007 Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2006
    Location:
    Star Trekkin Across the universe.
    Heck Kirk and Spock were able to pull off a sort of black op to get a cloaking device and they didn't need some amoral criminal organization to pull it off, so SI shouldn't have trouble doing as they have way more resources.

    Of course in some instances like sneaking into hostile territory to steal or destroy some horrible weapon or other power balance changing piece of tech they could use Section 31's name a reputation to give the federation plausible deniability if they can't play the crazy commander card.
     
  10. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2008
    Location:
    #istandwithcbs
    Oh, I agree totally. But I suspect this fan movie/pilot (should it meet it's Kickstarter goal and be made) will be quite prolific, and so the OP should know about about it.
     
  11. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    May 10, 2005
    Location:
    The visitor's bullpen
    ^ Perhaps this is part of Tuvok's plan...to ascend to leadership of Section 31 and destroy it from within. A double agent.
     
  12. Hartzilla2007

    Hartzilla2007 Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jul 15, 2006
    Location:
    Star Trekkin Across the universe.
    Wouldn't the whole reformed thing kind of imply their probably an official federation organization in this thing?
     
  13. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    May 10, 2005
    Location:
    The visitor's bullpen
    An organization like Section 31 cannot, by definition, be reformed. Except by its destruction.

    Section 31 is a criminal conspiracy, nothing more. You can't reform that. You can only destroy it.

    The official Federation organization already exists - it's Starfleet Intelligence. They have the right to exist; S31 does not.
     
  14. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2007
    Location:
    inside teacake
    It seems pointless, it would be on par with Starfleet Intelligence, only no one would know its name.

    Though I'm sure Starfleet Intelligence had it's paws in the muck plenty of times.

    I loved Section 31, anything to knock the evolved human fancy off its pedestal.
     
  15. Tom

    Tom Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2003
    Location:
    In your Mind!
    Thanks for the input on this!
     
  16. sonak

    sonak Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2007
    Location:
    in a figment of a mediocre mind's imagination
    section 31 was disbanded after they eventually came to realize that it was a pretty silly idea in the first place.
     
  17. LobsterAfternoon

    LobsterAfternoon Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Oct 15, 2006
    Do we know for certain that Section 31's existence is illegal? Certainly we know that some of their actions are reprehensible, if not illegal under Federation law. But Does that mean the organization's existence itself is a crime? The fact that the Fed Council and Starfleet Command both refuse to deny its existence, as well as the fact that Sloane appeared to wield both unofficial authority (kidnapping Bashir) and official authority (getting himself posted to the Bellerephon), suggests that Section 31 is an official organization that is sometimes acting improperly. In this sense, is it any different than when, in the real world, our treasury secretary doesn't pay his taxes? And given that we're told that Section 31 is part of the original Starfleet charter, isn't its existence legitimate?
     
  18. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    May 10, 2005
    Location:
    The visitor's bullpen
    Yes, it does mean exactly that. Section 31 routinely violates Federation law whenever it suits them.
     
  19. Tom

    Tom Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2003
    Location:
    In your Mind!
    We do know from Enterprise it existed before the Federation. But is it in Federation's charter (under section 31 lol)? is there on screen canon to support that?
     
  20. bullethead

    bullethead Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2008
    Have we even seen the Federation charter onscreen? I know we've heard references to it, but I don't think we've seen the actual document.