Season TWO OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Star Trek: The Next Generation' started by JJ-R, Sep 5, 2012.

  1. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Evidently they don't or else they'd go back to square one with the effects remastering for season two. The vast majority of shots are pretty poor when compared to the work done on season one, as Planet Blur above shows.
     
  2. Jaro Stun

    Jaro Stun Captain Captain

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    THANKS. World just looks better now :-)
     
  3. Tosk

    Tosk Vice Admiral Admiral

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    There's no way you actually think that would ever happen. All that money and work thrown away? C'mon now.
     
  4. Flake

    Flake Commodore Commodore

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    Planet blue blur posted here looks utterly pathetic compared to Season 1 planets.

    How did CBS allow this to happen?

    It seems as though they thought 'These guys used to work on the show, we can give them 100% control and we will be ok' - well that backfired! The FX seen thus far are a sharp downgrade from season 1.

    All it needed was some form of communication between the two to ensure they where getting the same style & quality of season 1. Its as if they just left them to it.

    To be fair I would have felt confident to allow Curry/Drexler and Takemura to use their own judgement because they originally made the show! but if I was in charge and saw their work starting to trickle in and noticed it was sub-par compared to season 1 - I would have said something!

    *facepalm*
     
  5. Flake

    Flake Commodore Commodore

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    AND!

    Why remake the stock ILM shots? Why remake shots CBS-D have already done?? WHYYY!!? It makes no sense. Except to say 'Hey, this is what *I* think it should have looked like, screw your original attempt.
     
  6. davejames

    davejames Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Lol. Yeah, that one is pretty undeniably bad. But it's still the exception here. Most of the S2 planets we've seen have looked FAR better than that.

    And in any case, I don't think it's worth throwing a tantrum over. I for one am still incredibly grateful this remastering project is even happening. I'm not going to start insulting and picking apart their hard work just because every effects shot doesn't look movie-quality. I mean, come on.

    It's amazing to me that suddenly all anybody cares about with TNG are these brief, 4 second shots of the Enterprise orbiting a planet. :rolleyes:
     
  7. Flake

    Flake Commodore Commodore

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    Its just frustrating that S2 is inferior to S1, that is all :)

    EDIT: From a technical, vfx compositing POV, not quality of writing etc :D
     
  8. Scotty

    Scotty Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I did find this segment of the interview interesting....

    In my opinion the original artists were too concerned with staying faithful to the original effects and they are partly to blame with not keeping in line with the earlier work done on CBS-D. It seems that CBS is on the fence about inviting them back for seasons 4 and 6. Maybe it's because they too see the difference of quality between seasons 1 and 2. I hope this is the case, because I'd much rather HTV Illuminated worked more closely with CBS-D than the old gang, after seeing some of the screenshots for season 2.
     
  9. NewHorizon

    NewHorizon Captain Captain

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    For me it has nothing to do with looking 'movie-quality' it is about consistency. HTV's work isn't just a minor deviation from the high bar CBS-Digital set with Season 1, it's a completely different approach esthetically. They took less care with things CBS did, like matte lines, star backdrops, and lighting. They totally revamped ILM shots that had already been finished..and in my opinion, they did them very poorly compared to CBS.

    CBS Digital needs to be commended for the restraint they showed on Season 1, they really could have gone totally nuts and yet they didn't. The old team and HTV-Illuminate, appear to have shown absolutely no self restraint on Season 2. I think a little bit of ego got in the way, they went totally nuts with their 'vision', hurting not only the final product but also personally shattering any faith I had in their professional judgement....and they have lost themselves a sale for Season 2. I'm standing by that decision.

    The two teams needed to work arm in arm and CBS is as much to blame for letting it happen in the first place. I certainly hope they have the guts not to let it happen ever again for the duration of this project. They're footing the bill for it...they should have been more assertive.

    I agree. There is definitely such a thing as remaining too faithful and we definitely saw it with Season 2.
     
  10. Ghostface1701

    Ghostface1701 Commander Red Shirt

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    Moving away from space VFX for a little while - I haven't heard of any instances yet of LCARS displays being corrected or improved, as they often were in Season 1. I was just looking through some TrekCore screenshots from the third season, where it's obvious even in SD that a screen that's meant to be the Captain's Log is just a bunch of random numbers.

    I might not have expected it before, but CBS-D really did spoil us with their excellent work.
     
  11. MickJo1701

    MickJo1701 Commander Red Shirt

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    Agreed, I seriously hope that the response isn't seen as us 'throwing our toys out the pram' because for the most part that's really not the case. But the general consensus from the fan base is stick with what was done for the first season.

    I for one am really looking forward to the Season 3 trailer if CBS D approached the material in the same way they did on Season 1, the FX really went up a notch in the 3rd year.
     
  12. NewHorizon

    NewHorizon Captain Captain

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    Yup, there was a ton of love poured into Season 1.
     
  13. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Really hope the price comes down. Going to have a hard time paying twenty dollars more for what is going to be a subpar product with less content. :scream:
     
  14. cbspock

    cbspock Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    What a bunch of whiney babies. You haven't even seen what the season looks like yet, and you are bitching up a storm over a planet shot. It still looks better than it did back in the 80s. Why don't you wait until the set is out before crapping in your diapers.


    -Chris
     
  15. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    All you have to so is look at all the different screenshots to tell the quality of the VFX isn't going to be anywhere near the quality we saw in season one.

    Don't know too many people who get off on spending money on a subpar product. But whatever floats your boat.
     
  16. NewHorizon

    NewHorizon Captain Captain

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    I've probably seen as many or more screen shots of Season 2 as I did Season 1 prior to release.

    I decided to buy Season 1 based on the footage and screenshots. I liked the quality and style of CBS-D's work.

    There have been promotional shots and videos, just like in Season 1. I intend to make my decision the same way...and that decision is not to buy the Season 2 set.

    There has been more than enough material to decide on whether or not to purchase.

    "Still looks better than it did in the 80's"...it should look as good as Season 1 did, and no less.

    [​IMG]

    Not cracking open my wallet for it.

    Thankfully, it sounds like CBS-D has rocked Season 3. Looking forward to that.
     
  17. Maxwell Everett

    Maxwell Everett Commodore Commodore

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  18. Harvey

    Harvey Admiral Admiral

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    From the screenshots I've seen, I understand your disappointment, but I see no reason for you to keep flashing that low-res .gif like it is clarifying the issue.
     
  19. Dac

    Dac Commodore Commodore

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    You have a point there. I think the whole Evil Curry vs the holy Legato debate is childish.

    Wrong. What we are seeing from TrekCore/FrontierTrek are final shots, considering he most likely has in possession a copy of the blu rays plus the fact that they are released in less than 2 weeks now means the discs themselves must have been in production for some time at this point. And its not just the one planet shot. It's the most glaring example of what folks are discussing, but its far from the only one.


    Yes, it looks better than it did in the 80s. No one here is debating that. The fact is the effects work on the season 2 Blu Rays (compared to season 1) are:

    Quantifiably less detailed - look at how blurry the elements are all over the house.

    Poorly composited - As has been pointed out, the lighting on the repulse from "The Child" screencaps is extremely warm vs the Enterprise's cool. They share the same light source, and in the original version they both have a cool tint to them. Why the change now?

    And have had less general clean up work done to them than the season 1 Blu Rays had. - The starboard view of the Enterprise flying by stock shot from season 2 as seen in this thread has a noticeable matte line around the bussard collector which is absent from the same shot from season 1.

    Sure, season 1 was not perfect, but if you do any comparison between a stock shot from the season 1 blu ray and the season 2 as many have, you will see the season 2 looks far less detailed than the identical season 1 shot is.

    As for the argument that "Its how the original artists wanted it to look" - bullshit. Originally it was mastered on VHS, they only had so many pixels to play with. Now its on Blu Ray, you've got 1080 lines to fill. It looked that way originally because that was the only way it could look, now we have a shining example in season 1 of how it can look today. Adhering to the fuzz of the original tapes vs the original intent of the work seems to be the issue here. CBS-D honoured the intent, HTV-i seem to have gone for a carbon copy, just bigger.

    I'm not going to call the work performed on season 2 crap, or shit, or insult any of HTV illuminate's mothers, but there is a substantial gap in quality in this season 2 release compared to the season 1 set which is either due to incompetence (unlikely) or a deliberate attempt too make the elements soft and fuzzy. It seems the latter is the case here, which to me is baffling due to the fact the whole medium of blu ray, the whole point of this restoration was to produce the footage in the highest quality possible.

    It's incredibly disappointing for me, as I was a huge fan of the work done on Season 1. No doubt I'll still buy it however, because this will be the definitive version of season 2. It will not corrected no matter how many of us "throw a tantrum" over the issue. Plus I would like to see the special features included. It's just a shame that it doesn't quite hold up to the bar set by CBS-D on season 1.
     
    Last edited: Nov 26, 2012
  20. Dream

    Dream Admiral Admiral

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    After getting some INTENSE negative fan reactions, CBS might order the effects company to try to match the first season effects quality?

    This reminds me of the audio screw up on the first season all over again. It had to happen so they could be more careful on quality control.