Season TWO OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'The Next Generation' started by JJ-R, Sep 5, 2012.

  1. FrontierTrek

    FrontierTrek Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    A further collection of stills for you all:

    http://tng.trekcore.com/bluray/11112012_ssn2stills2.html

    Some of these have been posted elsewhere, but at lower resolution and with heavy compression. I don't know about everyone else, but that always disappoints me... I'd much rather see the full HD quality of the images with minimal compression - so CBS kindly supplied us with full HD version so everyone can appreciate the blu-ray quality!
     
  2. Savage Dragon

    Savage Dragon TheSeeker Premium Member

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    Just saw that on facebook. These stills look quite good!
     
  3. senten

    senten Ensign Red Shirt

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    Can anyone comment on whether the quality of the original broadcasts / DVDs of season 2 was noticeably better than season 1?

    Looking at the HD vs SD comparisons of S2, there's clearly a great improvement but somehow missing a wow factor that was there for season 1.

    I guess this is for one of three possible reasons (although I'm not saying any of these are necessarily true):
    1. S2 HD remaster isn't up to the standard of CBS-D's job on S1.
    2. "HD fatigue", after looking at probably hundreds of S1 screenshots, and watching the whole series on Bluray, I've become used to seeing TNG in HD.
    3. Season 2 DVD's looked better than Season 1 (did they?), so the difference in SD vs HD isn't as astounding.

    Aside: the season two aspect ratio seems to be a tiny bit wider than S1? The screenshots are 1460x1080 vs S1's 1440x1080 (which are the usual dimensions for 4:3 content on Bluray)
     
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2012
  4. NewHorizon

    NewHorizon Captain Captain

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    Yeah, I get the feeling that the two teams just aren't on the same page...a side effect of them working independently of each other when they really should have found a way for CBS-D to oversee both projects to ensure the effects work was consistent. What I've seen so far falls flat.

    Some are saying that S2 is probably closer to the original artists intent. I'm not sure I can completely agree with that. Does that mean that the original artists didn't try to hide visible matte lines? I'm pretty sure during the original run that the artists did their absolute best to hide the matte lines, so it baffles my mind why we are now seeing visible matte lines in HD when they are more easily removed with today's tech. If the artists could have completely removed them in the late 80's early 90's, they would have. I don't want to see HD matte lines. :lol: I only want to see the updated original FX. I don't know, it seems that HTV, under the guidance of Dan Curry, have either been careless or painfully stubborn in clinging so tightly to "how it looked".

    I personally feel CBS-D struck the perfect balance between how it looked back then and how the same footage looks after being run through today's technology. They understood that just because the original footage for an explosion still existed, it didn't mean that they should use it if it didn't look good in HD.

    I was extremely optimistic when I heard Dan Curry was overseeing the HTV team, but if this is the type of approach we can expect from him, then my enthusiasm for Season 2,4 and 6 have been completely dampened.

    Some people keep stating the obvious, "it's an improvement over the DVD's". That's all fine and good, but they're completely different formats. I'm comparing the quality to S1 bluray...and from what I've seen so far...it's just not measuring up.

    Sorry to sound like a whiner, I don't mean to come off that way but if the whole Season 2 is like the shots we've been seeing, it will be a huge let down after Season 1.
     
  5. Maxwell Everett

    Maxwell Everett Commodore Commodore

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    S2, like S1, was telecined to 1-inch analog Type-C videotape (so was S3, by the way -- they didn't switch to digital D1 until S4) and so the quality of the video masters were essentially the same. I think perhaps the color was more consistent in S2... S1 had some pretty wonky color (magenta hued flesh tones and an overall green push, for instance) so that may make S2 appear a bit better on DVD.

    The new 2K remastering on S2 looks just as good to my eyes as S1 -- the live-action parts, anyway. And yes, you may be getting used to seeing the show at this new quality level and so the wow factor is lessening. When we get to S3, we'll get that back a bit since they switched DPs and the overall look will be different.

    As for the aspect ratio, I think when the Blu-rays come out they should be cropped back slightly to 1440x1080... but even if they don't do that it won't be that big of a deal since we're only talking about the difference between 1.33:1 and 1.35:1.

    Speaking of aspect ratio and other technical minutia, you should listen to this Trek Companion podcast where they interview camera operator and backup DP Kriss Krosskove (TNG seasons 6 & 7, DS9 seasons 3-7) where he confirms they shot with dual aspect ratio ground glasses during the run of DS9 -- though they always compromised the 16:9 framing in favor of 4:3 when push came to shove.

    It's podcast show #49:

    http://trekcompanion.podbean.com/
     
  6. Salinga

    Salinga Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    From what I saw so far, I have to agree: The compositing was better in S1. This time, you can actually "see" the layers of each effect, they dont seem to be in the same "space". :-/
     
  7. Scotty

    Scotty Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Love how dark the lighting was on the second season. These stills look great. The second season was visually a very interesting one. I can't wait to watch these episodes in december.
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2012
  8. tomalak301

    tomalak301 Admiral Premium Member

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    I really liked the stills this time around, especially the shot of the cloud from Times Squared. I'm really looking forward to these sets and seeing these shots in motion. It sounds like they won't be as good as Season 1, but if it's anywhere close, than I'm fine with that.
     
  9. Chris2005

    Chris2005 Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

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  10. Jaro Stun

    Jaro Stun Captain Captain

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    Yeah, honestly I try to love it as much as I can, and I will be getting the set because it will be best TNG format available anyway, but I feel disappointed.
    The proof of it is (for my own conscience), I'm no longer looking forward so much to S2, I switched to saying to myself, S3 is back at CBS-D.

    I don't know why S2 is not given the same care as S1, but I suspect money. And the usual greed to get more for less. :klingon:

    Nobody looking objectively at those screencaps can say they have the same level of detail as S1 did. At least not in effect shots.

    Overall I hope this gets fixed for S4, I would hate to have 2-quality levels in e.g. BOBW episode.
     
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2012
  11. LOKAI of CHERON

    LOKAI of CHERON Commodore Commodore

    I really hope this is not the case. :(
     
  12. davejames

    davejames Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I still think people are overreacting. Yeah maybe the effects aren't quite as perfect as in S1, but we're talking about very brief sequences here-- mostly just quick establishing shots and an occasional exploding ship here and there.

    To me the real HEART of these blu-rays is the incredible remastering of the live-action footage. That takes up the vast majority of each episode, and that's the MAIN reason I'm buying these sets.
     
  13. LitmusDragon

    LitmusDragon Commodore Commodore

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    Wasn't season one the only season that ILM worked on? Could that account for the difference in F/x quality?

    I'm not seeing anything too worrying in the released images so far. I'll reserve judgment until I'm watching it on my TV.
     
  14. Savage Dragon

    Savage Dragon TheSeeker Premium Member

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    So far the only really bad image I can think of is the one from Peak performance. It really does look like something I could put together at home in Photoshop. The live action stills I have seen look good.
     
  15. LOKAI of CHERON

    LOKAI of CHERON Commodore Commodore

    I think this is a classic case of "your mileage may vary". What may be an "overreaction" to one man, will be a disappointing "dropping of the ball" to another.

    I remember many were perfectly happy with the original S1 discs, replete with, to me anyway, horrendous mistakes on the audio encodes across seven episodes.
     
  16. Scotty

    Scotty Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    *raises hand*

    I can and I will. The live action footage is as good as the remastering of the first season. The look is slightly different because the lighting and cinematography were different in season 2. It looks absolutely fantastic. I love the dark look of the second season and it's faithfully reproduced here.

    As for the effects shots, I don't see what most of you are complaining about. Furthermore, we have seen only a handful of effect shots, either in the trailer or the promotional photos from CBS. I hardly think it's enough to draw any conclusions about the quality of the remastering. Wait for the Blu Rays.
     
  17. Savage Dragon

    Savage Dragon TheSeeker Premium Member

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    I'm waiting for the Blu-ray, and agree that the live action stuff looks great, but I still think that the image from Peak Performance looks pretty bad. The detail is there but the compositing doesn't look very good at all.
     
  18. Ghostface1701

    Ghostface1701 Commander Red Shirt

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    IIRC, ILM only worked on EaF, which included building up a library of shots for use during the entire series (they also did the lovely matte painting of Deneb IV that didn't need replacing). Otherwise the same F/X house (can't remember the name) worked on S2 as worked on S1.
     
  19. Sho

    Sho Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Except you'd expect them to put their best feet forward in promo releases, and that Peak Performance still is really just not very good.

    In the end there's no way I'm not buying this; I want TNG in HD, and that's what we're getting. Plus, the extras sound sweet. But I too am concerned about the remastering quality vs. S1 at this point.
     
  20. MickJo1701

    MickJo1701 Commander Red Shirt

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    The live action footage looks great, there's no doubt of that. For most of the second season the actors looked like they suffered jaundice, now the skin tones and colours are better than they have ever been. The issue with the effects I feel is that CBS-D where faithful to the original, but improved and modernized them significantly at the same time. The same cannot be said from what we've seen so far from season 2. The new effects are practically carbon copies of what we had before but with clarity. The planets still look like they were produced in the 80's instead of the superior mattes produced by Max Gabl. The star fields look poor in comparison to the 'ILM stars' used in season 1.

    Plain and simple, there should be somebody at CBS D who works with the people at HTV Illuminate to minimize the differences in the work they produce that affect the quality and continuity off the effects shots between the seasons. None of us really wants a repeat performance for season 4.
     

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