Season TWO OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'The Next Generation' started by JJ-R, Sep 5, 2012.

  1. SpHeRe31459

    SpHeRe31459 Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2013
    Location:
    Sacramento, CA
    The bad bluescreen compositing is an epidemic across all of S2, so while it may not be distracting in a few places, it's everywhere.
    More to the point, it's totally inexcusable in this day-and-age of good digital post-production tools.
     
  2. jimbotron

    jimbotron Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2012
    Location:
    Bay Area, CA
    I think we got the quality of season 2 not because HTV was incompetent (well, maybe a little), but that they did not have enough time to complete it, so they had to cut corners.

    This all could have been avoided had CBS not insisted on releasing three seasons in 2013.
     
  3. MakeshiftPython

    MakeshiftPython Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2013
    Location:
    Ladies love Riker's beard.
    Hopefully a redo can be done in the future if it's just for stuff like compositing. They won't have to dig up the film elements and such anymore, as all the footage is scanned anyway. Still, it might be too expensive for CBS to think it's even worth it, and that would be a shame.
     
  4. jimbotron

    jimbotron Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2012
    Location:
    Bay Area, CA
    I can't see that ever happening. It's not like remastering a 2-hour movie. This would be redoing months worth of work just to satisfy a small subset of fans.

    The only people who would want it are 12 fans who refused to buy it and fans who bought it and demand free replacements, meaning it would never recoup its cost.
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2014
  5. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2001
    Location:
    alt.nerd.obsessive.pic
    Overall, I was happy with season two on Blu-ray.
     
  6. MickJo1701

    MickJo1701 Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2011
    It definitely wasn't a case of missing or unusable film elements as the correct shot was used in The Last Outpost and it looks great.

    http://tng.trekcore.com/hd/albums/1x05/thelastoutpost_hd_043.jpg
     
  7. Hober Mallow

    Hober Mallow Commodore Commodore

    No one's mentioned how HTV also used the wrong live-action shots in several cases. In "Q Who" in particular.
    Were that the case, wouldn't seasons one and three have been plagued by the same problems.
     
  8. jimbotron

    jimbotron Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2012
    Location:
    Bay Area, CA
    They got to work on season 1 while working on the sampler, right? January was the sampler, and season 1 was out in July, so they had at least six-months to work on it, perhaps more. HTV then worked on season 2 without any input from CBS-D, and had it out in December.

    I believe in an interview, someone from CBS-D said they went right to work on season 3. That came out April 2013, so 9 months following season 1's release.

    CBS-D was then able to work on most of season 4 and all of season 5 in a tiny window. They apparently had the skills and manpower to make it work, but I don't think HTV did.

    Using the wrong elements in Q Who? is no big deal for me. The shots are nearly identical, and I wouldn't have ever noticed had no one brought it up.
     
  9. trekker670

    trekker670 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2008
    Location:
    Michigan, United States
    Very valid points. Expanding the timeline like that was very useful. I think it's important to note that S4 was handled mainly by another external company, but CBS-D did have more input than compared with S2. S5 also had its share of issues too, that weren't corrected until late in the season, or VFX errors that didn't get noticed. Overall, even with any mistakes that have crept in, the show looks better than it ever has and while I do enjoy finding and analyzing the minor flaws, overall I can't complain!
     
  10. jimbotron

    jimbotron Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2012
    Location:
    Bay Area, CA
    CBS-D handled the conform of season 4, which is the reconstruction of the live action elements. I believe they had the same people working on the color correction as well. It looks on par with seasons 1,3,5.

    Modern Video, for the most part, did the visual effects only.
     
  11. MakeshiftPython

    MakeshiftPython Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2013
    Location:
    Ladies love Riker's beard.
    From what I understand, the color correction was done by two parties. One for the pilot and season three onward, then another that worked on the first two seasons.
     
  12. Savage Dragon

    Savage Dragon Savage Mod Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2001
    Location:
    New York, NY
    Here's another example of HTV's sub-par work (courtesy of TrekCore).

    [yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_3I0hPn0YY[/yt]

    Same shot, vastly different results. HTV really only put forth the bare minimum of effort to get the job done, whereas CBS Digital went the extra mile.
     
  13. GNDN

    GNDN Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2003
    Location:
    Geosyncrhonous orbit over NJ
    It's a shame because I really like Where Silence Has Lease and the FX re-work makes it at times less attractive than the DVD. Same goes for the opening shots of The Child.

    Peak Performance while decent, suffers as well. I can only imagine how much more appreciated S2 would be if the restoration was on par with the rest of TNG thus far. :(
     
  14. jimbotron

    jimbotron Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2012
    Location:
    Bay Area, CA
    Peak Performance was pretty good, but the effects remastering was bad.

    The deflector dish was noticeably misaligned, and they forgot to light the nacelles.

    http://tng.trekcore.com/hd/albums/2x21/peakperformance_hd_377.jpg
     
  15. jimbotron

    jimbotron Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2012
    Location:
    Bay Area, CA
    There's an odd effect in season 2 also. It's in The Schizoid Man.

    The shot that appears in every episode - the effects shot of the Enterprise passing by under camera, and then warping away. It's also used occasionally in episodes. It's the 6-footer, then there's a flash, hiding the transition to the 2-footer.

    This is how it appears normally:
    http://tng.trekcore.com/hd/albums/2x21/peakperformance_hd_472.jpg

    This is how it appears in The Schizoid Man:
    http://tng.trekcore.com/hd/albums/2x06/theschizoidman_hd_059.jpg

    For whatever reason, they wasted their time recreating a special effect that appears in every episode anyway. It doesn't look very convincing either. It's a still frame of the model that's then been stretched in After Effects, or something.
     
  16. Maxwell Everett

    Maxwell Everett Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2002
    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    I'm not sure exactly how long HTV had to work on it, but based on Dan Curry's comment in Larry Nemecek's video interview with him that was posted on July 23rd, 2012, a day before Season 1 came out, Curry clearly states that Season 2 was also complete. If true, that means that the Season 2 episodes sat essentially untouched for a little over four months while VAM, authoring, disc replication and packaging were underway.
     
  17. SpHeRe31459

    SpHeRe31459 Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2013
    Location:
    Sacramento, CA
    Actually, that seems like a reasonable time frame. It has to be finalized at a certain point to make the schedule to be handed over the home video people for final BD authoring, replication, and then packaging, which easily takes 90-days from what I've heard.
     
  18. Maxwell Everett

    Maxwell Everett Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2002
    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    Right... and again, I don't know exactly when they were handed the project by CBS. It could be before the sampler disc came out in Jan. 2012 or just after. Also, I don't know what deadline CBS set for them in their contract. It could be they delivered everything exactly when they were asked... or they could have delivered it ahead of schedule, perhaps even as much as a month ahead. I seriously don't know.

    Their work certainly doesn't look as polished or as carefully integrated as CBS Digital's. It's acceptable, but just barely. It could honestly just come down to CBS Digital having better artists and compositors. There's also the surprising fact that HTV received no assistance or oversight from CBS Digital. That policy was fortunately reversed with Modern VideoFilm and the results speak for themselves.
     
  19. MakeshiftPython

    MakeshiftPython Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2013
    Location:
    Ladies love Riker's beard.
    Given that the Okudas and Dan Curry were involved in the remastering of S2, I'm surprised they were content with what HTV was churning out. How involved were they though? You'd think with them looking over the project, especially Dan Curry, that the effects would at least be more than "acceptable".
     
  20. Start Wreck

    Start Wreck Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    May 4, 2005
    HTV's mistakes were all VFX-related. The pure live-action footage in TNG Season 2 looks excellent.

    I'm not overly familiar with the X-Files, but are there any comparable FX shots that demonstrate what they've learned since then?