Season THREE OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Star Trek: The Next Generation' started by Salinga, Dec 5, 2012.

  1. jimbotron

    jimbotron Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    In the episode Sins of the Father, the picture has been tweaked slightly from the sampler disc. The color seems to pop more in the latest version, and the black level looks better:

    Sampler:
    http://tng.trekcore.com/hd/albums/3x17/sinsofthefather_hd_315.jpg

    Season 3 set:
    http://tng.trekcore.com/bluray/images_s3review/review34.jpg

    Sampler:
    http://tng.trekcore.com/hd/albums/3x17/sinsofthefather_hd_100.jpg

    Season 3 set:
    http://tng.trekcore.com/bluray/images_s3review/review33.jpg

    The framing is still the same, of course. They had confirmed earlier that it would not be re-remastered.

    Thanks very much for the screencaps, TrekCore :)
     
  2. Dream

    Dream Admiral Admiral

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  3. ChristopherPike

    ChristopherPike Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Hang on. I'm sorry? What? The framing still doesn't match that on the 4:3 SD, Sins of the Fathers. It's been left the same as the sampler? Which was clearly zoomed in too much. Erm... why? As I understand it, it was only like that, because of early days experimenting to see how TNG would look cropped to 16:9. Which didn't work. I seem to recall reading that was admitted. So why couldn't that single episode have been redone, while the others of this season were? I thought it was definitely going to be, after it had been raised as an issue on the sampler.

    It won't cause me to cancel my preorder, but disappointed the episode has come around (after however many months it's been known about) now as part of the one Season at a time remastering work and has just been left incorrectly framed.
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2013
  4. Maxwell Everett

    Maxwell Everett Commodore Commodore

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    I may be mistaken, but I see no *serious* problems with either perspective or scale in that shot. I think it's a little hard to judge size when we don't know how large those eroded laccoliths behind the city are intended to be. Remember that this is an alien world and our common Earth sense about distances and sizes could be way off. That main formation behind the city lights could be 1000 meters high.

    I do, however, think it's a little weird that the cloud seen in front of the moon in the sky doesn't appear to be in the reflection in the sea/lake. :)
     
  5. Maxwell Everett

    Maxwell Everett Commodore Commodore

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    Two likely reasons: money and time -- money being the most important of the two. The ultimate decision not to fix the framing probably came directly from the executives in charge of the project at CBS. They consider the episode finished (once the missing 13 seconds was located and scanned). I'm sure the folks at CBS digital would have liked to have fixed the framing but they were probably told not to.

    To be fair, this is not a catastrophic problem (not that I'm saying you think so) as the framing represents the "action safe" area that was intended for picture tubes back in 1990. The only problem is that even today most HDTV's ship with a slight overscan turned on by default and the consumer has to be technically savvy enough to know how to turn it off. So this particular episode will look a little too much cropped on the top and bottom on most consumer's TV's and things like titles will be outside of the normal "title safe" area.

    It's unfortunate, but we've known for quite a while that it wasn't going to be addressed. Think of it as the Persian flaw of Season Three on Blu-ray. ;)
     
  6. Tosk

    Tosk Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I'm definitely disappointed that Sins of the Father has indeed remained unfixed, but it's so hard to be angry considering just how gorgeous everything looks. How I've waited for you, Season 3...the first TNG Blu-ray that I'll be watching every single minute of. :)
     
  7. tomalak301

    tomalak301 Admiral Premium Member

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    Wait, whats wrong with Sins of the Father? Do we have our first Season 3 complaint on the same level of HTV?
     
  8. Dream

    Dream Admiral Admiral

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    Didn't CBS say it would cost them too much to go back and fix Sins of the Father?

    Why did they even have to experiment at all? Everyone could have told them TNG shouldn't be changed to widescreen.:sigh:
     
  9. Maxwell Everett

    Maxwell Everett Commodore Commodore

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    Not at all. This issue goes all the way back to the Next Level sampler disc from January 2012. "Sins of the Father" was scanned at 2K in exactly the same way as every other episode thus far -- that is, at 2048 x 1556, full camera aperture. For whatever reason (probably to avoid rescaling the image), the tighter "action safe" area (which just so happens to correspond to an area that is 1440 x 1080 in size within that 2K scan) was chosen instead of the 5% bigger "TV Transmitted Area" (AKA broadcast safe) for all the non-VFX shots.

    CBS *could* have CBS Digital reframe all the affected shots but they chose not to and consider it completed.

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  10. tomalak301

    tomalak301 Admiral Premium Member

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    Other than losing minor detail scenes in those pictures (And I mean really minor), I don't really see a problem. That's a good thing.
     
  11. jimbotron

    jimbotron Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Look on the bright side, the 13 seconds of recovered footage that's being reinserted will have proper framing. ;)
     
  12. Beta-Z

    Beta-Z Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Does that mean they will not correct that "Telelay"-thingy of "Inner light" for the 5th set as well?
    Although to me that's a funny one. "Telelay". :lol:
     
  13. ChristopherPike

    ChristopherPike Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I'm completely happy with you thinking I consider this a catastrophic problem. Having (at least) the same visable frame area which existed before, is actually quite important. Rescanning the film has at times yealded more of the frame, so it doesn't sit well with me there being less. Even for one episode. But it is just one episode. I guess I'll manage. I can't see CBS Digital not correcting it somewhere down the road though, and sneaking the correctly framed episode into some HD syndication or online streaming deal. So I think we can further pin it down to just time, in order to make a fixed release date. Rather than time and money.

    Not terribly happy having spent a while since the sampler disc, under the misapprehension it'd be corrected by the time Season 3 was out. Just seemed so obvious an error, with no need to bang on about it.

    I'd like to make clear my remarks aren't directed at you or anybody in particular. Or intended to be taken personally. I value the TNG remastering project and the efforts of all those working on it. Those are however, precisely my feelings about CBS Digital deciding not to correct an issue, that had been established for sometime now.
     
    Last edited: Apr 21, 2013
  14. Phily B

    Phily B Commodore Commodore

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    i have it pre-ordered but i acquired it else where for now..

    looks great so far...
     
  15. sadsquid

    sadsquid Lieutenant Red Shirt

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  16. trekker670

    trekker670 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I've been following this project rather closely and don't recall this issue, can someone explain?
     
  17. Savage Dragon

    Savage Dragon Savage Mod Moderator

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    Misspelled word in the credits of the sampler I believe.
     
  18. Dream

    Dream Admiral Admiral

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    For those looking for the best price for TNG S3 on release day:


    Target will have S3 at $59.99. If you buy ST:TNG BoBW (14.99) at the same time, they will take another $10 off both (So $64.98 for both).
     
  19. Hober Mallow

    Hober Mallow Commodore Commodore

  20. NewHorizon

    NewHorizon Captain Captain

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    Yup. CBS-D's version is that much better.