Season FOUR OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Star Trek: The Next Generation' started by Savage Dragon, Apr 24, 2013.

  1. DJ Mike

    DJ Mike Ensign Red Shirt

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    Sadly barely any games ever touched my PS3 - almost entirely Blu-ray usage.

    I did see the stuff about heatgunning my PS3. Requires a LOT of time to do though - and now that I have a replacement Super Slim, I'm not sure I'm that likely to bother. We shall see, though!
     
  2. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Picked up the set today. Though I haven't had time to watch any of it yet.
     
  3. Trekker4747

    Trekker4747 Boldly going... Premium Member

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    Fek'lhr sounds like the Klingon word for "poop."
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2013
  4. jimbotron

    jimbotron Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Kang said there is no Klingon devil. Dang continuity!
     
  5. Trekker4747

    Trekker4747 Boldly going... Premium Member

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    There could still not-be depending on what you think "a devil" is and what Fek'lhr represents.

    In Christian theology the devil is a fallen angel who rules over Hell, a dominion for souls who've forsaken a Christian God in favor of something else, or have failed to make-up for their sins depending on how you want to look at getting into Heaven. (Faith, or being without/forgiven of sin.)

    So in that case, since the Klingons "killed" all of their Gods in favor of simply honor and glory they likely have no concept of a place in the afterlife ruled by gods, fallen angels or is a place of paradise. Instead if you have honor then you go to Stovokhor if you don't you go to the Barge of the Dead. Fek'lhr simply rules over that/the honorless-equivilant of Stovokhor.

    So he's not a "devil" in the sense that he represents a fallen angel, the opposite of God and rules over "bad" souls but he does represent the ruler of those who die without honor. That may not be seen as "a" devil possibly in the same way Kahless is neither a deity or a savior (at least in the same way Jesus is.)
     
  6. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    IIRC, the word "fek'lhr" means "demon" in the Klingon language.
     
  7. Hober Mallow

    Hober Mallow Commodore Commodore

    Zoroastrianism started the whole dual good god/bad god myth based on the insight of duality which has continued with later Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. Most world religions that have ever existed have to do with the transcendence of duality. That's one thing that bothers me about this episode, is that it takes for granted a universal Judeo-Christian view of all religion, when that's really a deviant tradition.

    Even early Judaism didn't have a devil, and the devil is all but absent from the Old Testament. No one went to heaven, except the rare special person who's taken alive to heaven to "walk with God." Most people who died went to Sheol, a Hebrew underworld like the Greek Tartarus.
     
  8. Maxwell Everett

    Maxwell Everett Commodore Commodore

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    You say that most world religions are dualistic with good and evil opposites (and I agree it does seem to be a recurring theme), but then you say you're bothered that the episode takes for granted a universal Judeo-Christian view of all religion. However, as presented in "Devil's Due," the Ventaxian myth of Ardra makes no mention of a good rival who opposes her. :confused:
     
  9. Hober Mallow

    Hober Mallow Commodore Commodore

    No, what I was saying is that most religions are not that way. It's when religions become ethical in nature that they focus on good vs. evil, and it started -- as far as anyone can tell -- with Zoroastianism. It continued with the western religions like Christianity, Islam, and Judaism. East of Persia, religions have to do with putting you in accord with the world as it is. Good and evil may be recognized, but they're both two aspects of the same thing, they both come from the same mystery source, and, for that matter, they are both subjective.

    Perhaps there is a good version of Ardra, but she's actually another incarnation of the same deity. The goddess in many parts of the world is both creator and destroyer. The goddess represents the creative principle of the world, imminent divinity (God is in all things) as opposed to the god, who often represents transcendent divinity (God is somewhere else, and you're duty it to relate to God). It's possible Ardra is the negative aspect of the goddess, who could be represented as the planet itself. (That would have been an interesting argument for Picard to try to rebut: "You don't understand, Picard, she isn't entitled to the planet -- she is the planet!")
     
  10. cbspock

    cbspock Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Is the opening shot in The Host, a CGI Enterprise???

    I am glad they lost the headpieces for the Trill on DS9 and went with the spots instead.

    -Chris
     
  11. jimbotron

    jimbotron Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Yup, it's CGI. That shot can be seen littered throughout season 4, though strangely not in the CBS-D episodes. Those ones used the blurry model shot.
     
  12. cbspock

    cbspock Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    The effects in In Theory look great


    -Chris
     
  13. Maxwell Everett

    Maxwell Everett Commodore Commodore

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    Sorry, I read what you wrote as, "transcendence to duality" and not, as you actually wrote, "transcendence of duality." Apologies! :)

    That's possible. But you recognize that even if this were the case, that it is still quite a different beast than the traditional Judeo-Christian view of religion. That sounds more like the Hindu god Shiva. So either way (bad Ardra only or Ardra as creator/destroyer) the episode diverges from a dualistic, good vs. evil Judeo-Christian view of religion. :)
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2013
  14. cbspock

    cbspock Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    The Art department feature is interesting. Love the discussions on DS9, about how the designs influence each aspect of the sets, the displays, etc.


    -Chris
     
  15. Hober Mallow

    Hober Mallow Commodore Commodore

    No worries. :)
     
  16. Scotty

    Scotty Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    The shot was created by CBS-D for "The Inner Light".

    I just finished watching the final episodes on the set as well as the newly produced special features. I have to say I am extremely disappointed by the newly created VAM by Lay and Burnett. The roundtable discussion with the art department was a mess. Sure it's nice to listen to these people but what this discussion needed was a moderator to keep the discussion on topic. As has been mentioned before, they spent half the time of this 67 minute feature talking about the design challenges on Deep Space Nine (which Burnett should've cut from this and use for a possible DS9 blu ray release). Another 15 minutes they spent talking about Enterprise. Both the actors reunion and the writers roundtable were led by a moderator and it was sorely needed here.

    The two part documentary Relativity : The Family Saga of Star Trek The Next Generation was equally disappointing. First of all, why do the docs have these ridiculously long titles. :confused: Just call it Stardate Revisited parts 9 and 10. Second, to me it seems that Lay and Burnett have exhausted all their worthwhile footage from their interviews and are now scraping the barrel. The first part focussing on the writers was on par with season 3. But the second part was just poor. There was no narrative, no structure, just soundbites from the cast that sometimes had nothing and most of the time very little to do with season 4. Stewart talking about George Hearn in Sweeney Todd, Spiner's baseball comparisons, Sirtis still going on about her hair. Wheaton going off on a hockey tangent, Dorn talking about going to get a haircut. Half of the time I was wondering what the fuck these people were talking about. Also every sentence spoken was intercut with scenes from the show so that the stories seemed even more disjointed.

    I honestly love this remastering project and am immensely grateful that CBS is undertaking it. From an A/V standpoint season 4 was a success. But Lay and Burnett seriously need to up their game if they want to come close to the quality of their earlier efforts for the Blu Ray releases.
     
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2013
  17. jimbotron

    jimbotron Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    And it looked pretty fake. The improved lighting seen in season 4 makes it appear much more real.

    However, the telltale sign that it's CGI is still there in that it is perfectly sharp and defined when it's far away from the camera. The real model appears much softer farther away.
     
  18. Scotty

    Scotty Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I hadn't noticed any improvement. It still looks very poor.
     
  19. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    So I watched the first disc.

    Some thoughts (about the series up to this point):

    * The show is exceptionally pretty for something produced in the early-90's. You can tell the folks really put a lot of love into the series.

    * Brothers and Remember Me are much better than I remembered (especially the music). Family and Suddenly Human are dull.

    * Jonathan Frakes is the weak link in the cast, far more than either Sirtis or Wheaton. His acting style, "80's constipation" factored with the fact that the character does nothing but stand around and state the obvious hurts the show. His character arc was done, I wish they had been brave enough to move the show in another direction.

    * Burton and McFadden are both better actors than I remembered.
     
  20. cbspock

    cbspock Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    To me it was the blue glow of the warp engines that was the tell that it was CGI

    -Chris