Season 3, in an earlier time...

Discussion in 'Star Trek - Original Series' started by Warped9, Mar 13, 2014.

  1. Warped9

    Warped9 Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2003
    Location:
    Brockville, Ontario, Canada
    Thought exercise.

    Is there a Season 3 episode you would like to have seen done in either Season 1 or 2 when things were a bit different? And if so how do you think it would have been different?

    Anyone?
     
  2. Melakon

    Melakon Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2012
    Location:
    Melakon's grave
    Overall, no. During the NBC run, I was 17-18 during the 3rd Season, and could see at the time how production quality was deteriorating, especially with some of the scripts that had the potential to be great, but kept falling short.

    The first impulse would be to say episodes like "The Enterprise Incident", "Day of the Dove", and "Elaan of Troyius" might have worked better in earlier seasons, but since there was no Klingon battle cruiser model before then, they're best left where they are.

    The only episode that I think might have been improved was "The Tholian Web". The story always seemed a bit odd to me that Kirk gets whisked off to limbo for most of the show, with probably fewer lines that he'd had in any other episode. Sometimes I wonder if it was some sort of punishment toward Shatner, or maybe he just needed a light schedule that week to do some important personal business. Seemed odd to give your top-billed star so few lines and physical presence.
     
  3. trevanian

    trevanian Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2004
    THOLIAN WEB definitely, because Ralph Senensky would not have gotten fired halfway through for being a few hours behind schedule before Paramount bought Desilu. And we'd have a much closer to perfect show as a result.

    SPOCK'S BRAIN would have been an intentional comedy, so it probably would have been better. I actually enjoy SPECTRE OF THE GUN as-is, so I don't know if Coon's original intended approach would have been better or not.

    WAY TO EDEN would have been a lot more interesting, because it would have been filmed as JOANNA, about Kirk getting involved with McCoy's daughter. 3rd season producer insisted McCoy & Kirk were the same age (!?) and therefore McCoy couldn't have a grown daughter, and the story somehow morphed into Cauliflower Ear and his groovy followers.

    I wonder if TURNABOUT INTRUDER might have been done with Diana Muldaur. No problem with Sandra Smith, but just saying it might have been cast differently (which also suggests that DAY OF THE DOVE would have featured Koloth rather than Kang, which would have been a disimprovement.)

    That's off the top of my head, if I think of more I'll come back.
     
  4. KeepOnTrekking

    KeepOnTrekking Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2001
    Definitely would have loved to see "the Way to Eden" done as "Joanna" as mentioned before. It could have injected some new chemistry between Kirk and McCoy if Kirk did have any interests in McCoy's daughter.

    Also would have liked "The Enterprise Incident" done as the Pueblo incident as D.C. Fontana's original story was based on.

    It would have been interesting to have David Gerrold's tribble sequel, too. There was an article about how he adapted it for Star Trek-Animated but how it was diluted down for a kids' cartoon. Something about the glommers were just as prolific as the tribbles and started attacking the crew as the food supply (tribbles) was running out. It sounded like a different (and dark) follow up instead of the repetitve cookie cutter comedy clone we finally ended up with.
     
  5. Warped9

    Warped9 Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2003
    Location:
    Brockville, Ontario, Canada
    When I look at these episodes I can't think of how they could gave been made distinctly better. For me they work fine as is.

    “Elaan Of Troyius” (Better costuming please for the Elassians, particularly the men.)
    “The Enterprise Incident” (dressing up the Romulan ship interiors more would have been appreciated.)
    “Is There In Truth No Beauty?”
    “The Tholian Web”


    When I consider these I don't see them that far off, but a mild rewrite wouldn't have hurt. In these cases it's more a matter of having a little more money to dress up the episodes a bit more.

    “Spectre Of The Gun”
    “The Empath” (A bit more money please.)
    “Day Of The Dove” (I'm not sure how this could have been a bit better, but it could have been.)
    “Plato’s Stepchildren” (I really don't have much problem with this as is, but a little polish wouldn't hurt.)
    “That Which Survives” (Spock seems just a bit too stiff and anal, for lack of a better word. And Scotty comes across at times as a little too excitable. A bit more money to dress this episode up more would have been appreciated.)
    “The Cloud Minders” (I quite like this, but it could use a bit more punch, more edge and a polish in some spots)
    “The Way To Eden” (In some respects this harkens back to "This Side Of Paradise." It could have used that episode's nuance as well as toning down the Space Hippy depiction)
    “Requiem For Methuselah” (The only serious beef is Kirk falling for Rayna so hard and so fast. Maybe if we had some inkling some added manipulation of Kirk was in play)


    These are just okay, but definitely need some rethinking.

    “The Paradise Syndrome” (My biggest criticisms are in regard to some of the thinking behind the Enterprise having to intercept the asteroid, how easily the ship is crippled and Spock's methods in trying to deflect it. SOme of the scenes strike me as a bit too cheesy.)
    “For The World Is Hollow And I Have Touched The Sky” (Things happen just too quickly to be believable.)
    “Let That Be Your Last Battlefield” (All this story really lacks is nuance.)
    “The Lights Of Zetar” (Scotty has already acted weird with a woman before in "Who Mourns For Adonais?," but Mira Romaine is so uninspired compared to Carolyn Palamas.)
    “The Savage Curtain” (The Excalbians come off as yet another all powerful race with abilities beyond technology. There are some interesting one-off characters introduced and I'd have liked to have learned a bit more about them)
    “All Our Yesterdays” (Spock reverting to his ancestors' behaviour just doesn't wash for me)


    In each of these is a viable story idea screaming to get out.

    “Spock’s Brain” (A solid science fiction story idea handled in a regrettably clumsy manner. It's really a matter of botched details and overall lack in execution.)
    “The Mark Of Gideon” (Ludicrous concepts and expecting too much suspension of disbelief. I don't know if this could even be salvaged.)
    “Turnabout Intruder” (An episode like "Return To Tomorrow" would be a decent reference point to turn this into something more respectable)
    “And The Children Shall Lead” (Potential valid horror story ruined by embarrassing overacting, poor villain concept and performance and kids.)
    “Wink Of An Eye” (Atrocious science even for sci-fi. The characterizations in this are also wanting.)
    “Whom Gods Destroy” (Everything about this screams "cheap" in production and in thinking. It certainly doesn't have any of the chilling sensibility of "Dagger Of The Mind.")
     
  6. Warped9

    Warped9 Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2003
    Location:
    Brockville, Ontario, Canada
    I'm rather glad they didn't do "Joanna." I think that would have just been creepy to paint Kirk in that light. No, thank you.

    And I certaily had no interest to ever see the tribbles again.
     
  7. CrazyMatt

    CrazyMatt Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2013
    Location:
    Trying to focus....
    Agreed on BOTH accounts...

    Now if it turned out that McCoy's daughter was a tribble salesman... er, saleslady... er salesperson, and Kirk was OH JUST NEVER MIND!
     
  8. Push The Button

    Push The Button Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2013
    Location:
    Smithfield, Rhode Island USA
    I think that The Enterprise Incident and The Tholian Web would have been better had they been produced during seasons one or two. They are still two bright spots in the otherwise drab third season, but add in the same kind of tension that The Cornomite Maneuver and Balance of Terror had, and these good episodes would become great.
     
  9. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2001
    Location:
    Per Ardua
    I'm pretty happy with how the third season turned out. It had a different flavor compared to the first two seasons but is still "Star Trek".
     
  10. Warped9

    Warped9 Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2003
    Location:
    Brockville, Ontario, Canada
    There's a lot I like in TOS' third season. This thread or discussion is really just a thought exercise and not an indictment of the season as a whole.
     
  11. Myko

    Myko Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Sep 15, 2004
    Location:
    Stockholm, Sweden
    I would've liked to see Joanna, but without the Kirk romance angle. Seeing McCoy interact with his daughter would've been amazing.
     
  12. scotpens

    scotpens Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2009
    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    What it also lacks is a plot.


    No, but what it does have is Yvonne Craig. :drool:
     
  13. Ssosmcin

    Ssosmcin Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2002
    Location:
    ssosmcin
    Going over the list of third season episodes, I noticed two things: a) the really good episodes I wouldn't to change very much and 2) all of those episodes occurred during Bob Justman’s tenure. After he left, there was a sharp decline in story quality. The execution got really sloppy. That’s not to say there were no duds on his watch – there were. But all of the episodes I consider the best of the season happened while he was there. No coincidence, surely. Although I still have Freiberger a lot more respect than most people.

    Anyway: Requiem for Methuselah is a great concept that would have been given better treatment in the second season. Spock’s Brain doesn’t really need at that much work. Make the women less ridiculous, put Spock’s head in bandages (or explain they you don’t need them), don’t have Spock direct his own operation – hell, don’t have Spock down there at all until you really need him – and this could be a real fun episode. It’s still fun for me, but not like it could have been.

    Some episodes just shouldn't have been approved at all and probably wouldn't have been on the first and second season team’s watch.
     
  14. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2001
    Location:
    Per Ardua
    Would some of these episodes been better executed during seasons one and two? Maybe? But some of these episodes may not have been made at all, for good or ill. I think one of the strengths of the third season is, good episode or bad, it has a different "feel".

    I think the spinoffs would've benefited from having gone through similar shake-ups regularly. It all started to "feel" the same after a while with the same person in charge and the same behind-the-scenes people working on the shows for such a long time.
     
  15. Warped9

    Warped9 Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2003
    Location:
    Brockville, Ontario, Canada
    I agree that those episodes I really like in third season I would change little to nothing.

    Those episodes I think fall on their face can still have respectable concepts, but they're handled terribly. "And The Children Shall Lead" is a prime example. This could have been a truly chilling horror story (assuming you could achieve X-Files levels of creeping people out in the era), but they completely missed the boat. Even as is there are chilling moments in it yet it's all derailed by so much else that's embarrassing.
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2014
  16. Ssosmcin

    Ssosmcin Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2002
    Location:
    ssosmcin
    I love the feel of the third season, actually. It's "spookier." The music has a lot to do with it also.
     
  17. Warped9

    Warped9 Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2003
    Location:
    Brockville, Ontario, Canada
    There is a different feel that I wouldn't want to lose. It isn't really that I'd want the poorer efforts of third season actually made in earlier seasons and replace something else there. It's that I'd rather the poorer efforts were given the same attention stories in the earlier seasons were given.
     
  18. Harvey

    Harvey Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Oct 8, 2005
    Location:
    Los Angeles, California
    Spock's Brain was never written as a comedy, I'm afraid. The original treatment was a little different, though.
     
  19. evangelist6589

    evangelist6589 Lieutenant Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2014
    I disagree. Whom Gods destroy was a far better episode than Conscious of the King. There are some real good ones in season 3 and Wink of an eye is one of them. Overall season 3 is the weakest but only by a small difference over season 2.


     
  20. scotpens

    scotpens Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2009
    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    The third season had some excellent music, most notably George Duning's lush, melodic scores for "The Empath," "Is There In Truth No Beauty?" and "For the World Is Hollow and I Have Touched the Sky." Unfortunately the music frequently outshone the scripts.