Saucer Separation

Discussion in 'The Next Generation' started by xvicente, May 2, 2013.

  1. Trekker4747

    Trekker4747 Boldly going... Premium Member

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    The saucer does not have warp drive. Period.

    It can maintain a warp field if the ship separates at warp, but the saucer cannot generate its own warp field. Want proof? Look at the Master Systems Display along the back wall of engineering. No warp core, no imbeded nacelles, warp field coils, or any indication of a warp drive system I doesn't have it. Wasn't intended to have it and all production materials, tech. Manuals, ship plans, cut-away posters, blue prints offically released by Paramount and made by those involved with the creation of the show and coming up with the fictional technology supports this.

    Any time the saucer is at warp it was but there by the Stardrive Section, never of its own ability.Why a years old thread was resurrected to discuss this beyond me.
     
  2. Squiggy

    Squiggy FrozenToad Premium Member

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    Each system had an extra drive section that swooped in an picked up any errant saucer section that needed a lift because why not.
     
  3. Trekker4747

    Trekker4747 Boldly going... Premium Member

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    What about the lifeboats? Clearly they had warp drives.

    FWIW, after reading some more of the thread, thd impulse engines weren't limited to .333..c due to any design limitations, they could go faster if needed it's just that that speed was apparently selected to best limit the time dilation effects of relativistic speeds. Though, to be fair, even at .5c time dilation still would be managable. I think beyond there it starts to become a problem.
     
  4. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    So it could get away before whoever destroyed the stardrive section decides to come after it next?
     
  5. Ithekro

    Ithekro Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Hasn't it been suggested that impulse engines produce some sort of subspace field in order to move all that mass?

    There has also been suggestions of fusion powered warp engines.

    So, how much would it take to boost up a pair of impulse engines to keep their subspace field at a higher level needed for warp travel? This could be used to sustain an existing warp field. But could it produce enough energy to jump a ship into low warp?
     
  6. Richard Baker

    Richard Baker Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    The MSD cannot be used reliably to determine what is contained within the Saucer sections hull- it is a cross section right down the center line and does not show anything positioned elsewhere.
     
  7. T'Girl

    T'Girl Vice Admiral Admiral

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    And if the ship is off in the backside of nowhere it would take years (slash) generations to return to civilization. Or to get a subspace communication through to someone who would rescue them, while they put-putted along at sublight speed.

    The saucer likely isn't nearly as fast as the stardrive section, but does have warp capasity. Warp three or four perhaps.

    (The lifeboats probably do too)

    :)
     
  8. Trekker4747

    Trekker4747 Boldly going... Premium Member

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    Only it shows the saucer impulse engines which are not on the center-line of the ship and it'd STILL show a saucer warp core which, we can presume, would be on the center line of the ship like the one in the Battle Section is.

    And, I quote, directly from the technical manual:

    This book was written bu Rick Sternbach and Mike Okuda, bot had strong influences in the writing and look of the show to keep its fictional technology looking a certain way and remained more-or-less consistent.

    The saucer-section has no warp drive.
     
  9. Timo

    Timo Admiral Admiral

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    Well, "Relics" confirms the technology has not evolved.

    Whether putting in bigger engines would give more performance, we don't know. Impulse engines are not rockets, or they couldn't move even the Wright Flyer equivalent let alone a later starship the way they do. It's also explicit in "Relics" that the small Sydney class transport has impulse performance superior to that of the large if modern Galaxy. If it were possible technologically at all, surely a modern fighting vessel would get better performance than a meek old transport?

    Well, he stated wrong. "Farpoint" is explicit (well, explicitly implicit) about the saucer traveling a long distance at warp. And the saucer wasn't stuck in a wormhole or a tachyon stream - we were not given any hints that it would be moving using anything but its own resources.

    The one true statement here is "there's absolutely nothing that would point to the saucer not having a warp drive". No dialogue, no plotlines, nothing. All talk about absence is speculation or backstage mumbling that does not touch upon aired Star Trek.

    Except in "Arsenal of Freedom". That is, if the saucer was not at warp there, it becomes an idiot plot, and we have no compelling reason to make it an idiot plot.

    Perhaps you meant "when the saucer is seen at warp"? But that never happens! Even in "Farpoint", the effects of saucer separation show impulse stars on the background, not warp streaks. Make of that what you will.

    The ones on the Defiant (and, through reuse of graphics, Voyager) even had phaser strips!

    The book is full of nonsense, such as phasers not being operable at warp.

    Amusingly, the same guys later did a series of blueprints that show a massive blank space just underneath the blue-glowing things on the saucer upper stern. "Insert Warp Drive Here (but don't tell any Klingons who might purchase this set)"? ;)

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  10. Trekker4747

    Trekker4747 Boldly going... Premium Member

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    That's the arboretum. They said later on that things slipped-through the cracks when it came to put it into the plans.
     
  11. LMFAOschwarz

    LMFAOschwarz Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Think of it this way, T'Girl (not to say you have to agree, mind you, but at least consider it :) ) that the word 'lifeboat' in itself is actually a good description. When your ship goes down at sea, and you hop in the lifeboat with the others, the odds of that boat actually getting anywhere safe on its own are pretty minimal (perhaps thousands of miles from dry land, no food, etc.). Presumably, rescue ships and/or aircraft will hopefully pick up any survivors. Presumably, the same thing would happen with the saucer section. Ideal? Probably not...but at least the saucer would be a pretty nice way to "rough it" while you wait.

    All of this is not a guarantee...but what ever is?
     
  12. Chemahkuu

    Chemahkuu Admiral Admiral

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    The saucer section has no warp capabilities at all.

    It does however, have a large hanger of shuttlecraft, support craft and apparently two Danube class runabouts. Also the captains yacht.

    All of these *are* warp capable, and can be sent in several directions at once, reaching outposts, starbases, planets etc

    Voyager employed it's shuttlecraft a lot during the 7 seasons to do a variety of things, there's no reason to believe a Galaxy class saucer couldn't do the same.
     
  13. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I see nobody's answered my last question:

    Why would the saucer not be designed to have warp drive on its own, when it's extremely likely that any opponent which could have destroyed the stardrive section, would go after the saucer next?

    To deliberately leave the saucer section without warp drive is to make it vulnerable to attack. Why is this even in dispute?
     
  14. CorporalCaptain

    CorporalCaptain Admiral Admiral

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    Squiggy cited dialog that conclusively demonstrates that the saucer doesn't have a warp drive. Whether that's the most desirable configuration or not is moot.
     
  15. Chemahkuu

    Chemahkuu Admiral Admiral

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    The Galaxy class is the ultimate Federation expression of naivety. It's massive, slow, filled with hundreds of civilans, captained by Starfleet's ahem...seasoned captains then sent right into the unknown and right into danger time and time again.

    Tiny highly vunerable engines with the idea probably that the ship separate at warp and let the saucers impulse engine subspace sustainer coils make it continue along at warp speeds, ever slower and making awkward course corrections.

    Maybe it does have warp drive, but all the manuals say no, behind the scenes material says no, in the show they heavily imply the saucer is deeply vunerable when separated unless catapulted away by the stardrive first.

    But apparently since it can spit antimatter from it's many phaser emitters (BoBW P2) it can look after itself anyway.
     
  16. The Old Mixer

    The Old Mixer Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Very good point, and it makes me wonder if a number of warp-capable shuttlecraft working together couldn't tow the saucer section at slow warp....
     
  17. Chemahkuu

    Chemahkuu Admiral Admiral

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    You know, I hadn't even thought of that. With it's impulse engines lowering it's apparent mass, two Runabouts could be turned into warp tugs very quickly.
     
  18. The Old Mixer

    The Old Mixer Vice Admiral Admiral

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    My first thought was that they might cannibalize the warp cores and engines from all those shuttlecraft to rig a temporary warp system for the saucer...then I remembered Sisko towing a Cardassian warship with a runabout.

    The towing option could explain the saucer's ability to get around in some of the situations mentioned without violating the concept that the saucer itself doesn't have warp engines.
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2014
  19. Chemahkuu

    Chemahkuu Admiral Admiral

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    So they did, and it was crippled at the time IIRC. So yeah they have a few options with their little fleet of warp capable mini-ships they haul around.
     
  20. Ithekro

    Ithekro Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    In theory, the two impulse drives could move the ship at low warp. It would be highly inefficient and use a lot of the fuel, but it could probably boost up the subspace field enough to allow the two drives to shove it into warp.

    It would be an emergency sort of thing though. Might also be a use for having two widely spaced impulse drives to provide at least a possible emergency warp field for the saucer.

    I doubt it would be enough for a whole Galaxy-class ship, and the third impulse unit would probably mess up the warp dynamic. But being able to use an emergency system to at least get one moving at FTL speeds would be enough to reasonably get a full on ship back to Federation space and/or a starbase. Even Warp Two would be something. Warp three tops. I would not expect an emergency system without nacelles to be able to match even Archer's Enterprise. Warp Two would be roughly what a present day theoretical Alcubierre warp drive could do (10 times the speed of light), so I can imagine a system in place to do that much on something as advanced as a Galaxy-class starship.

    Lifeboats don't seem to have this sort of functionality, but then the saucer section is a bit more than just a lifeboat.
     

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