Saldana: Uhura-Spock

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies XI+' started by TrekToday, Mar 1, 2013.

  1. Franklin

    Franklin Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    This is an overstatment, perhaps, but I think the attraction or mystique of Spock to women fans in TOS was that he was both highly desirable and seemingly unobtainable. He was a distant, cold figure. And lonely. A woman may be tempted to think, "I know that's not really him, and if I had the chance, I could break through and get to him." In the show, that was personified by Nurse Chapel. In the end, Spock represented unrequited love, which probably even added to his attraction.

    Whether or not one likes the idea of Spock having an open relationship with Uhura or not, thematically, their relationship changes that TOS image of Spock. The mystique is gone. The attraction of unobtainability is gone. And so is unrequited love. Instead, it's about Spock learning how to love, and Uhura gets the chance many female fans may have fantasized about in the 1960s. This Spock is not lonely.
     
  2. Shazam!

    Shazam! Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Just because you don't like it doesn't mean you can dismiss its global appeal to literally MILLIONS of female fans.

    There's a reason why they chose Spock over say, Scotty or Sulu as a potential love interest. He embodies the stoic, emotionally distant, damaged goods etc model of a contemporary romantic lead designed to appeal to a certain demographic.

    It's a trick designed to get some extra butts in the seats and on that level I can't deny that it worked perfectly.

    Personally, I found it tired and predictable. Had it been Scotty or Sulu... man, that would have been interesting.

    Also, kinda sexist.
     
  3. The Mirrorball Man

    The Mirrorball Man Vice Admiral Admiral

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    In what way? How would that have served the movie, and how would it have worked thematically?
     
  4. serenitytrek1

    serenitytrek1 Commander

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    No offence but what global appeal does Twilight have?

    Twilight is the worst Hollywood film franchise ever. I don’t care how much money it made at the box office.box office has never equalled quality.

    Didn’t Breaking Dawn 2 win 7 Razzies awards including worst film at last week’s ceremony?

    Twilight is marketed to silly teen girls.

    Sparkling pretty boy marries equally sparkling pretty girl and they live happily ever after without any sacrifice.

    Now that is the definition of a cliché romance.

    I don’t remember the spock/uhura relationship been anything like that.

    And no... they could not go with Scotty or Sulu beause they are not leading characters. Kirk and Spock are the main characters.

    let me refresh your memory of the golden trios in some of the biggest film franchises ever.

    Luke-Han-Leia..(star wars)

    Harry-Ron-Hermione (harry potter)

    Anakin-Padme-Obiwan (star wars)

    Peeta-Katniss-Gale (hunger games)

    Captain Jack Sparrow- Elizabeth-Will Turner (pirates of the carribbean)

    Kirk-Uhura-Spock (star trek 2009)

    Edward-Bella-Jacob (Twilight) I will add twilight since you are a fan.

    In case you want to know the similarties between all this cahracters..they all had leading roles in the films and the romantic plot is between at least 2 of the characters I mentioned.
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2013
  5. serenitytrek1

    serenitytrek1 Commander

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    I don’t really think the Mystique is gone. It is still , after all a different Spock and it doesnt matter how good Quinto is as Spock. Nimoy's Spock will always be the icoinc Spock.

    I have heard many fans say that Zachary Quinto's Spock was even more cold and distant than TOS Spock.

    Most people call NU-Spock an emo.
    .
    In the ending scene of the 09 film when TOS Spock tells NU-Spock to put aside logic and do what feels right.

    Do you think TOS Spock said those words to NU-Spock because he regretted the cold and distant part of his life that made him miss a lot of human things like love.



    Remember Leia Kemoli or even Christine Chapel.

    I don’t know how true this is , but I heard that Gene Rodenberry initially planned for Spock and Chapel to get married but it never happened.


    Like I said...I dont know how true those rumors are.



    NU-Spock seems to find the right balance between logic and everything including love.
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2013
  6. Franklin

    Franklin Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I think part of the mystery of TOS Spock was his unobtainability and yet his latent sexuality (like he could explode at any moment). Women suspected that if they could get him to hug them, he probably wouldn't stop there. (Being a man, I can only speculate. Sorry if that sounds overgeneralized.)
    I do think seeing Quinto's Spock with his first girlfriend does remove some of that mystique. Spock Prime seemed to both fear and desire intimacy (as in closeness). But this Spock seems far more comfortable in exploring this part of his humanity than Spock Prime was. Maybe some of it has to do with his father telling him he actually loved his mother. Hey, if it was OK for dad, who is full Vulcan, then -- .

    I definitely believe this Spock will reach his, "If I were human, I believe my response would be, go to hell," moment in life a lot sooner than Spock Prime did.

    So many people say so many things, but what I've heard is if TOS had continued, they may have toyed with a Spock-Uhura relationship, not Spock and Chapel. but over the decades, it's hard to separate out fact from fabrication or just a person's sincere but bad memory.
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2013
  7. M'Sharak

    M'Sharak Definitely Herbert. Maybe. Moderator

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    Star Trek 3: Spock Amok... coming to a theatre near you in 2016.
     
  8. Shazam!

    Shazam! Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    He was basically there at the end of Trek XI.

    Yes, it's certainly a common cinematic trope. Or cliché, if you will.

    All I'm saying is that I think the Spock / Uhura relationship was a cheap trick used to insert unnecessary melodrama (as if Spock didn't have enough going on in that movie) and to drag a few extra female butts to the seats, that there was a reason they used Spock outside of say, Scotty, as emotionally detached and / or distant leading men are very much en vogue as evidenced by Twilight etc

    If you disagree, fine, but don't accuse me of not getting it because I'm a 'man'. It's rude and needlessly dismissive.
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2013
  9. serenitytrek1

    serenitytrek1 Commander

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    No offence again but you are still dont uderstand much. A cliché romance is a romance with two perfect pretty people having a relationship based on lust , superficiality and shallowness.

    And again, they could not use scotty because he had a supporting role and was hardly a character in the first film. the love story must always been between the main leads. so that will be kirk/spock, spock/uhura or kirk/uhura. why is that so hard to understand.

    There is nothing cliché about that. what will be cliché will be the substance and depth of the romantic relationship.

    Also there is nothing wrong with attracting women...you are the one that is been sexist. You think trek should be all about actions and explosions and should have no feminine attribute like romance.

    JJ trying to appeal to the masses is not a cheap trick it is a smart trick to make star trek more commercially successful and more popular among men and women.

    In case you dont know but every film in history,regardless of its genre has always had added a romantic plot to the story line.

    A lot of men loved Titanic.... they are just too ashamed to admit it.
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2013
  10. Malaika

    Malaika Captain Captain

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    not surprised that the actors are so evasive about it

    Zoe Saldana in another interview said:

    “Whether they are together or not that will remain to be seen. But come on, I'm not going to ruin the element of surprise! I signed papers, trust me! I will lose a kidney if I say too much!
    well :lol:

    this bit by Zachary Quinto from a recent article for EW is interesting though

    "I think we tapped into something in the first film that a lot of people weren't expecting, which is the emotional undercurrent and how powerfully it runs through him. That continues in this film. There are things that happen to him -- and things that he's part of -- that are incredibly personal. That was really exciting for me both physically and emotionally."


    I guess you won't know what he's talking about until may though

    so what Spock finally getting the girl could be pandering to socially awkward nerds that dream to get the hottest girl for once ;)

    the old " pandering to" argument...
    girls only like romance, the fanboys only wants actions and don't want the girl to distract the guys from their videogames.. what next? who wants to add more stereotypes?
    up this point breaking them up would be as fan pandering as keeping them together

    fyi, most of the shippers in the trek fandom, that are women, are slash fans anyway...



    perhaps because ~thematically~ the few times the black girl is the love interest of the white guy, the latter is a secondary character (better if unattractive). Now that's predictable.
    (notice how MCcoy didn't get a mention in that above comment ;) )
    That would surely fit with Hollywood-pre-established set of rules when it comes to love interests for characters like Uhura and would, therefore, be a cliché.
    It is ironic, isn't it? say hi to intersectionality
    Even nowadays, it takes more guts to put her with the white iconic protagonist, add that it's Spock of the two... whoa those crazy writers...

    I'm just saying. Thing is, I'm white but Uhura is not a white girl and it's good to remember it.
     
  11. Shazam!

    Shazam! Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Offence taken.

    You're right. The thing that everyone expects them to do and the thing they always do isn't a cliché.

    *facepalm*

    No.

    Cheap and smart aren't mutually exclusive. I already said that it worked liked a charm in attracting an audience.

    Horseshit.

    More sexism.
     
  12. Dream

    Dream Admiral Admiral

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    In a big three, the two sidekicks pairing up has become pretty cliche now. :p

    Han/Leia
    Ron/Hermione
     
  13. BeatleJWOL

    BeatleJWOL Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Was there really enough Spock/Uhura romantic interaction in the film to be a nuisance? Not that I saw. Or is it the simple fact that the writers went there at all that gets to people?
     
  14. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I was referring to most of the women in the series who found themselves attracted to Spock, not to Uhura.
     
  15. The Mirrorball Man

    The Mirrorball Man Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Gimli/Legolas.
     
  16. serenitytrek1

    serenitytrek1 Commander

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    I think it is ridiculous that race should even be factor.one of the main purpose of star trek was to blur the race line.

    Gene Rodenberry’s dream was that all people will be treated and respected equally regardless of them been black, white or yellow or a different colour. In star trek it was very common for people of colour to get together and people of different species to also get together.

    In the 23rd century. Spock is more likely to be racially abused than uhura . We saw it in the film. Spock getting bullied and emotional abused for been half-human and Spock is white.

    Jim doesnt seem to care...all he cares about is getting pretty girls in his bed. he flirts with uhura who is black, he sleeps with Galia who is Green and he flirts with those ladies on the steps and they were white.
     
  17. serenitytrek1

    serenitytrek1 Commander

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    I will say no for ron/hermione. ron was not the hero and there was a good build up. it took them 7 years to get together. also the relationship was not based on lust.

    As for han/leia..I always had this feeling that George Lucas only made Luke and Leia twins when he was writing Return of the Jedi.

    yeah...yeah...I know Yoda tells Obiwan in Empire Strikes Back that there was another but heck...... Han Solo could have been ‘‘the other’’)

    Leia seemed to enjoy kissing Luke more than Han.
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2013
  18. mos6507

    mos6507 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    What would have been bolder is just not have the bridge crew banging each other at all. Or if they're a couple, they should keep it on the down-low and not exchange sweet nothings and kisses while on-duty. I mean, Starfleet is like the work-place and you can't get your work done if you are busy flirting with your girlfriend all the time. It just contributed to making the Enterprise feel like a frat-house with a bunch of kids that are more interested in shagging than getting their jobs done.

    If they wanted to have this relationship taken seriously, though, they should have had some real relationship scenes between the two instead of dropping it on us like a bombshell merely through their overt body-language. It was clearly done just as a cheap shock-tactic.
     
  19. The Mirrorball Man

    The Mirrorball Man Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Yeah, no. Star Trek is not a documentary about Starfleet. Starfleet doesn't exist, Starfleet is anything that is required by the plot. Refusing to include scenes because it doesn't fit into a narrow interpretation of what would happen within a fictional organisation is an insane way to write fiction.

    We're talking about two scenes in which two adults exchange brief kisses while having a conversation. I'm sure that whatever your personal life choices are, that kind of thing is nothing out of the ordinary, and not very similar to the kind of wanton debauchery you so vividly describe.
     
  20. Shazam!

    Shazam! Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Well, yeah, obviously. If they hadn't gone there, there would be nothing to discuss : /
     

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