Sacrifice of the Angels Ending A Deus Ex Machina?

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Deep Space Nine' started by M.A.C.O., Oct 27, 2012.

?

Was the ending Deus Ex Machina?

  1. Yes

    24 vote(s)
    37.5%
  2. No

    40 vote(s)
    62.5%
  1. T'Girl

    T'Girl Vice Admiral Admiral

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    We never heard again of any Dominion/JemHadar ships coming through the wormhole, I personally took that to mean that the Prophets were "disappearing" Dominion ships as a on-going thing.

    :)
     
  2. Anwar

    Anwar Vice Admiral Admiral

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    It was mentioned in a later episode the Prophets were keeping the Dominion from sending any more ships through.
     
  3. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    ^I thought it was just that the Dominion was afraid to risk sending any more ships through for fear that the same thing would happen to them.
     
  4. Anwar

    Anwar Vice Admiral Admiral

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    The Founders caring about losses? Most likely they'd send more through just so make sure it wasn't a one-time thing.
     
  5. Pavonis

    Pavonis Commodore Commodore

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    Yeah, I can't see the Founders worrying overmuch about the loss of ships or soldiers, and could see them sending fleets through the wormhole despite the loss. They're not stupid, though, either, and I can't see them figuratively pounding their head against a brick wall to no avail.
     
  6. Anwar

    Anwar Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Sure, just send a few squadrons through to check. Then stop.
     
  7. Tiberius

    Tiberius Commodore Commodore

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    Not really. But then, most windows machines aren't self aware. Data would be able to create some sort of communications program. And since we saw him do it, he must have that ability.

    Given that Data would have a universal translator built into him, I don't see that it's much of a problem.

    Data probably overrode those sensors when he did it.
     
  8. Pavonis

    Pavonis Commodore Commodore

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    And, of course, the Prophets couldn't have been included in the Dominion War story arc until the episode, because until that episode the wormhole was mined, and the Dominion controlled the station. How could the Prophets/Wormhole Aliens have been included in the war arc before "Sacrifice of Angels"?
     
  9. R. Star

    R. Star Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    That was always the impression I got too. Keep in mind 2800 ships is a lot and was very likely a significant percentage of their military and one that would take time to recover. Especially when you factor in all the soldiers and support personnel too. Honestly it I'd wonder why the Dominion didn't try and destroy the wormhole from the other side after that debacle.
     
  10. Pavonis

    Pavonis Commodore Commodore

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    Why would the Dominion want to destroy the wormhole at all? For one thing, the Bashir-changeling worked to ensure the wormhole ended up "even more stable" when Sisko and crew tried to seal it in "In Purgatory's Shadow".
     
  11. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    Because it was their only way to the Alpha Quadrant. Without it, all their soldiers and Vorta and undercover Founders on the AQ side would've been completely cut off. It would've meant abandoning the conquest and everyone involved with it. Not only would the Dominion have been reluctant to admit total defeat like that after a single setback, but the Founders would never have been willing to abandon fellow Changelings in that way. (Well, except for that time they sent a hundred of their infants out into the wilderness unprotected, something that's always been hard to reconcile with the rest of what we know about them.)

    So even after what happened, they still absolutely needed the wormhole to be intact. They couldn't go through it at the time, but destroying it was simply not an option. They were just biding their time and hoping they could find a way to restore safe passage.
     
  12. Vanyel

    Vanyel The Imperious Leader Premium Member

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    Destroying the Wormhole could have been a morale buster for Sisko. It might have turned the Bajorans against the Federation, since all they would be hearing is that the Wormhole was destroyed by the Founders because of Sisko. The loss of their gods can have had big affects on the Bajorans. And if you keep telling a lie over and over eventually enough people will come to believe it.

    However, it was always my impression that the Prophets weren't letting anything of the Dominion through. The Wormhole just wouldn't open on their side.
     
  13. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    But how would that have helped the Founders in any way if, by destroying the wormhole -- their only way of reaching the Alpha Quadrant -- they gave up any hope of conquering, or even being relevant to, that quadrant at all? That's the dealbreaker. Destroying the wormhole would've meant forfeiting the war. The Alpha Q. side could've benefitted from destroying the wormhole because it would've protected them from the invaders. But the Dominion were the invaders. They started the war. They needed the wormhole in order to win it.
     
  14. Vanyel

    Vanyel The Imperious Leader Premium Member

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    They needed the Wormhole to win the war quickly. Otherwise The Dominion were making ships and growing Jem'Hadar faster than the Klingons and Federation could build ships and train crews. I believe those reason were cited by the Romulans for not joining the Federation-Klingon Alliance.
     
  15. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    You're talking about the agents of the Dominion who were operating within the Alpha Quadrant. I'm talking about the Dominion itself, the government that sent them to our quadrant. It's like the difference between an American combat unit in the Pacific in WWII vs. the Roosevelt administration. The Vorta and Founders in the AQ were just the advance forces acting on behalf of the actual Dominion back in the Gamma Quadrant, a Dominion whose goal was to establish control over the Federation and its neighbors. If the wormhole were destroyed, maybe the Dominion forces in the AQ could've continued their conquest, but to what purpose? The actual Dominion itself, the Gamma Quadrant government that started the war in the first place, would've been completely deprived of any possible way of winning it.
     
  16. Vanyel

    Vanyel The Imperious Leader Premium Member

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    The Founders are ageless.

    Also it seems like they do have ways of traveling faster than what was depicted. Odo may have inadvertently traveled through the Wormhole and reached the Alpha Quadrant, but at least one of the other "hundred" made it to the Alpha Quadrant as well.

    The Founders in The Gama Quadrant would have know of the victory, in time. And what meaning does time have to those who are ageless?
     
  17. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    Look. The Dominion had absolutely no incentive to destroy the wormhole. Its continued existence posed no threat to them; at worst, they couldn't go through it to carry on their war effort, but it didn't do any harm to the Dominion itself. And if they could clear up the problem that kept them from going through, then it would be invaluable for their continued attempts at conquest. Destroying it would not have benefitted them in any possible way and would in fact have worked against their long-term goals.

    I mean, come on, that's the whole reason Changeling Bashir took steps to make sure Starfleet couldn't destroy the wormhole!
     
  18. TheRoyalFamily

    TheRoyalFamily Commodore Commodore

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    Time is still time, even if the Founders themselves are ageless. It would have taken them decades just to make it back to Cardassian space without the wormhole, and there's a lot of different folks in the AQ that we don't know about, so it would take even longer. And the whole time the Feds and Friends would be advancing in tech (Voyager itself would bring the Feds years, if not decades, ahead of where they were before), while the Dominion fleet would just be traveling.
     
  19. Vanyel

    Vanyel The Imperious Leader Premium Member

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    If Earth was under Federation control, one starship, no matter its power, could have been a threat to the Dominion.

    And aren't we way off on a tangent now?

    That's all I gotta say about that.
     
  20. DWF

    DWF Admiral Admiral

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    Sisko could've asked them to stop the Dominion ships from forming a foothold in the AQ.