Sacrifice of the Angels Ending A Deus Ex Machina?

Discussion in 'Deep Space Nine' started by M.A.C.O., Oct 27, 2012.

?

Was the ending Deus Ex Machina?

  1. Yes

    24 vote(s)
    37.5%
  2. No

    40 vote(s)
    62.5%
  1. Pavonis

    Pavonis Commodore Commodore

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    Physically destroy Bajor? Or destroy the Bajorans? It's not as if the Dominion wasn't going to become a heavy-handed oppressor eventually. They leaned on the Cardassians until they ended up massacring them. What would they have done to the Bajorans? Leave them alone?
     
  2. Knight Templar

    Knight Templar Commodore

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    They massacred the Cardassians after the Cardassians openly rebelled violently against the Dominion.

    There is no evidence at all that the Dominion was going to bother the Bajorans much or that they even considered them worth much effort.

    Weyoun specifically shot down Gul Ducats presuming that he was going to retake Bajor (after taking Terok Nor) and resume his role as overlord there.
     
  3. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    You're wrong there. Don't forget -- in "By Inferno's Light," half a season before "Sacrifice of Angels," the Changeling Bashir attempted to blow up Bajor's sun in order to take out the allied fleet that stood in the Dominion's way. So Sisko wasn't lying. He knew for a fact that the Dominion was willing to destroy Bajor altogether if it served their purposes. Given the strategic importance of the Bajoran system, as the bottleneck through which all Dominion fleets would have to pass to reach the AQ, it was likely there'd be massive battles there in the course of the invasion, and the Dominion wouldn't care if Bajor suffered collateral damage in the process.
     
  4. Sykonee

    Sykonee Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Bajor signed a non-aggression pact, which in Dominion speak basically means, "Don't bother us, and we won't wipe you out. Oh, by the way, don't mind all the military and administrative personnel we're dropping off in your neighbourhood."
     
  5. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    Not that the Dominion would've actually honored any nonaggression pact that got in the way of its intentions, any more than the United States ever honored its nonaggression pacts with Native American nations.
     
  6. Knight Templar

    Knight Templar Commodore

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    That was before the Bajorans had signed a treaty with the Dominion.

    all on screen evidence is that the Dominion fully intended to honor its treaty with the Bajorans.
     
  7. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    Oh, yeah, right, like the way they "honored" their treaty with Cardassia. Come on, you can't seriously propose that the Dominion could be trusted to keep its word. Whatever deals they made with hated, inferior solids were just convenient lies to serve their long-term objectives. They didn't give enough of a damn about solids to care about keeping their promises to them. Not to mention that the Founders' whole approach to dealing with other life forms was built around deception.
     
  8. Tiberius

    Tiberius Commodore Commodore

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    Maybe so, but I don't think that the Doms would have done anything like that until their voctory in the AQ was assured.

    Why show yourself to be untrustworthy when there are still cultures you might want to form an alliance with? The Dominion never started to ignore its treaty with Cardassia until they were desperate.
     
  9. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    ^But Sisko wasn't talking about the short term. It doesn't matter whether a world is destroyed a year from now or a hundred years from now -- it's still just as unacceptable. Especially when you're talking to beings for whom time has no meaning.
     
  10. Tiberius

    Tiberius Commodore Commodore

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    But the point was that if the Dominion had a non-aggression pact with Bajor they wouldn't abandon it until they had no other choice.

    If they did, then they'd be abandoning it shortly after making it, and then there would be no such pact with the Romulans and the Breen probably would have thought twice before allying themselves with the Dominion too.

    I think the Dominion was counting on the foot-in-the-door they already had with the Cardies.
     
  11. MacLeod

    MacLeod Admiral Admiral

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    All those treaties of Non-Aggression the dominion had were in the long term worthless.

    After conquering the the Federation and the Klingons, they would have moved onto say the Romulans, then onto the next race until they had brought the Founders sense of order to the galaxy.
     
  12. Tiberius

    Tiberius Commodore Commodore

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    Yes, but it made sense for the Dominion to honour those treaties for as long as possible because it kept everyone else off their backs.
     
  13. Nightdiamond

    Nightdiamond Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Sooner or later something would have happened to have ALL the Bajorans up in arms, the Dominion would probably have done the same thing to them that they did to the Cardassians.

    The Dominion is just too different. They are absolutist, and that takes priority over any "Solid's" concerns-religious, legal, political, whatever.
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2012
  14. Tiberius

    Tiberius Commodore Commodore

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    Yes, true, but until then, I am firmly convinced that the Dominion would honour the treaty - until it was in the Dominion's interest to renege.
     
  15. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    First off, no, they'd abandon it the moment it was convenient for them to do so, because it was never anything more than a self-serving ploy. Second, again, it doesn't matter when they would do it, since Sisko was making his case to beings for whom time has no meaning or relevance. All that matters is that they would do it.
     
  16. Pavonis

    Pavonis Commodore Commodore

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    We all agree, then. The Bajorans would've been slaughtered by the Dominion eventually. To survive, they would've had to be willing to kneel before new overlords, and who thinks that would've been done easily and quietly?
     
  17. R. Star

    R. Star Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    With people like Kai Winn running things? She'd do what she needed to to stay on top.
     
  18. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    There were collaborators under the Cardassian occupation as well, but that didn't prevent the rise of a robust resistance movement.
     
  19. Pavonis

    Pavonis Commodore Commodore

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    Absolutely she would. But her authority would be eroded by the Dominion gradually, while the rest of the Bajorans would start ignoring her "authority".

    The problem with the Dominion, and it's one of their strengths, is that they can appear reasonable and nonthreatening if they want to. Weyoun especially had the knack for appearing as a reasonable person, but could quickly switch to threatening when he wanted. They could convince the Bajorans that being under the Dominion's control wouldn't be any worse than being under the Federation's control, and infinitely better than being under the Cardassian's control. But for how long? A few years? The Bajorans fought a guerrilla war against the Cardassians for decades. Why would they do any less against the Dominion?
     
  20. Tiberius

    Tiberius Commodore Commodore

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    That was my point. Yes, it was a self serving ploy, and the Dominion would abandon it as soon as it stopped serving them.