Rumor: TNG-HD is a-coming

Discussion in 'Star Trek: The Next Generation' started by MrPointy, May 10, 2011.

  1. mswood

    mswood Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Re: '

    Actually one of the best looking episodes (not a very good hour of tv, but thats a different issue) of early TNG, Damn I miss Bowman.
     
  2. Tomalak

    Tomalak Vice Admiral Admiral

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    The HD remasters of shows like Thunderbirds, and the ground-breaking documentary The World At War were cropped too, and are only available in their mangled form, precisely for this reason. The original DVDs have long since been deleted, and are rather tough to get hold of.

    I've got nothing against cropping to 16x9 (I'd actually be interested to see TNG presented like this), but I want the original versions too.
     
  3. GNDN

    GNDN Commodore Commodore

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    What markets showed this version? I've never seen or heard of it. Too bad this was not presented as a third option on the blu-ray.
     
  4. monkeyjb1988

    monkeyjb1988 Cadet Newbie

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    I've read that book and paragraph (and bought it used :rommie: I loved that book.) It seemed to have been written especially for us future fans of HD and Blu-Ray. There's also this page I found a while ago:


    I have no doubt that all of the filmed elements can be reused. The resolution may not be the best, but the model effects look great and I would hate losing them. I would hope if they did more CG work than replacing the original CG effects that they don't have the files for or lost filmed effects (more of a problem for DS9 and VOY), they would give the option to see either the original effects in HD and the new effects (obviously also in HD :rommie:). Granted, that would double the work, so I'm just hoping they re-composite the filmed elements. It's not like TOS, where the effects were really, really substandard and none of the filmed elements existed (It sounds like, from what the DS9 book says, that the spinoffs saved their elements, but I'm not sure if that changed or what happened since then). Plus, it would lessen Paramount's risk if they not paying even a cheap effects house to redo all the effects when a simple film scan and 10 minutes on a video compositor. Just my own thoughts.

    (To compositors: that crack about 10 minutes wasn't meant as an insult to you. It was just meant illustrate how much simpler it would be to composite film elements than go ILM on effects.)
     
  5. Hober Mallow

    Hober Mallow Commodore Commodore

    Streaming through my blu-ray to my HD TV, you better believe I care about the picture quality.
     
  6. Hober Mallow

    Hober Mallow Commodore Commodore

    No, that's not even close to it.

    TOS episodes existed on film. All that was needed was to transfer the episodes to HD and to clean things up a bit.

    TNG episodes do not exist on film. They only exist on video tape and the quality of the DVDs cannot be improved on. The way it looks now is the best it can ever look.

    The only way to make TNG HD is to recreate every episode from raw film footage. The film still exists, but the film would have to be edited together again from scratch into a completed episode and new FX added. It's not, strictly speaking, going to be a remaster. The completed episodes that exist now can't be remastered in HD.

    TOS only had to be transferred again. TNG will have to go through seven years worth of post-production. A much much greater challenge than remastering TOS to HD. How long will that take? Well, it took seven years the first time. (Then again, this time around the audio, music, and sound FX are basically done and won't require the work involved the first time through post-production. Still, make no mistake, this project is going to be much much more labor intensive than remastering TOS was.)
     
  7. Haggis and tatties

    Haggis and tatties Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Oh I'm up for this, after the fantastic job the did with the original series I'm certainly on board with this if true.
     
  8. GNDN

    GNDN Commodore Commodore

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    I would also love this to be reality, but for now, it's still just a rumor, and any reality will be some time off.
     
  9. jefferiestubes8

    jefferiestubes8 Commodore Premium Member

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    Re: Rumor: TNG-HD

    In the film and TV business this is called conforming an edit since the editors work is already done and the original high resolution footage needs to be conformed to the edit.
    Currently when a TV series edits on downconverted standard definition DVCAM after the edit is complete the nonlinear editor's edit decision list with timecodes (as XML of AAF files) is used to conform the original high definition tapes. Usually this is somewhat automated once the footage is loaded in. Dissolves and effects are rendered, CGI visual effects are added and a master is ready.
    Back in the 1980s and 1990s though the tape-to-tape linear videotape editing systems had an EDL (edit decision list) which was a semi-proprietary format (usually saved on 3.5" floppy discs) that had minimal information such as tape# and timecodes in & out for each edit to be able to edit from videotapes of the film telecine to create a videotape master. If that EDL material were printed out and saved it would help assistant editors and a post-production-supervisor's work on TNG-Remastering.
    If not then all the raw 35mm footage will take a lot more effort to catalog the 35mm film to be able to locate scenes and takes used and then edits eye-matched to the original master.
    Eye matching 7 seasons of episodes would take years but not 7.
    If EDLs exist and notes were kept then conforming the takes used for an episode is greatly reduced. Then the film must be telecined to HD and footage handed over to CBS Digital for the visual effects shot work to start.

    agreed.

    It's nice to hear sliceofscifi has picked up the rumor story:
    Paramount Working on HD “TNG”?
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2011
  10. GNDN

    GNDN Commodore Commodore

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    ^ But while spreading this rumor they also give credence to this long-standing misconception:

    Too bad so few seem to understand the rather simple distinction between being mastered on videotape versus 'filmed' on tape.
     
  11. CaptainStoner

    CaptainStoner Knuckle-dragging TNZ Denizen Admiral

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    Re: Rumor: TNG-HD

    As a side note to the dicussion above, CRT monitors have vastly better color quality than all but the most expensive LCD's. When I switched from CRT to LCD it was shocking how washed-out everything looked. Sadly now, I don't even notice.
    But it would have to be a good CRT. The one that died on me was a high-end 21" I'd picked up from an computer recycler for $70 around 10 years ago. So it had good dot pitch, refresh up to 120hz, and could do super-high resolutions.
    However, I'm sure the better LCD's will continue to come down in price over time.
     
  12. SoM

    SoM Commander Red Shirt

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    The big potential improvement in TNG FX isn't so much in the model quality (although certain aspects of the 4ft model, like the deflector - could stand to be improved), but the relatively limited shot selection - how many shots of the E-D from above are there, for instance? (It was almost entirely shot from below - technically above since it was upside-down - not for artistic reasons, but because the model was a lot easier to handle that way since the design was so top-heavy).

    Even just a few new stock shots to mix in with the standard ones would be nice.

    I'd have to check EAS & Drex Files to be sure, but ISTR that while many of the models still exist (Doug Drexler's posted renders of a lot of them), some of them are damaged due to newer versions of the software not reading them right, combined with them not being designed for HD resolution. And they don't necessarily have the data to just rerender the scenes straight up even if the models were perfect.

    Read these bits: http://darthmojo.wordpress.com/2008/06/20/sci-ficandy-voyager-strikes-back/#comment-830 & http://darthmojo.wordpress.com/2008/06/20/sci-ficandy-voyager-strikes-back/#comment-834

    CBS Action in the UK show the cropped version, for starters.
     
  13. Tomalak

    Tomalak Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I was just going to post that. It's the Doomsday Machine now, and in standard definition - it looks stunningly bad.
     
  14. Doug Otte

    Doug Otte Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Thanks (to you and others who previously responded) for debunking my ignorant misconception.

    Doug
     
  15. GNDN

    GNDN Commodore Commodore

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    What was so bad about it? The cropped framing? Or the SD picture quality or both?

    I would never want 16:9 to be the only version available, but I would be interested in seeing it presented properly, cropped judiciously without in-frame tilting, in full 1080p with the new widescreen visual effects. I'm sure there are exceptions here and there, but I feel that most of the live action shots in TOS and TNG would not be detrimentally hurt by trimming the top and bottom.
     
  16. AviTrek

    AviTrek Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    The challenge would be bridge shots that included someone sitting at ops and other people standing. Would all the heads fit in? Would you end up with an awkward half Worf out of frame? Etc...
     
  17. GNDN

    GNDN Commodore Commodore

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    Not saying it would be perfect by any means, and yes the leveled bridge of TNG and the many times Riker performed his maneuver next to Data's station would be particular challenges. Still be curious to know how TOS held up from a framing standpoint.

    It's easy enough to view a rough version simply by hitting the zoom button on a widescreen tv, but of course the loss in picture quality and lack of control over the tilt make this the least appealing viewing option, on par with stretching the 4:3 image to simply fit the width of 16:9.
     
  18. jefferiestubes8

    jefferiestubes8 Commodore Premium Member

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    aspect ratio & framing

    AviTrek see this post from the other [What new FX/editing do you want to see in the STNG-R?] thread.

    TOS-R honored the original framing of TOS by using pillarboxing.

    The Twilight Zone is out on Blu-ray now and also honors the 4:3 framing using pillarboxing.

    in the early 2000s the HD cable channel got the HD licensing rights to broadcast Hogan's Heroes. They cropped & stretched the image to fill the screen.

    source
    If you want to know what it would look like see that show on Universal HD.

    I think CBS Digital would do the same framing with TNG-R as they did with TOS-R and honor the original framing so compromises are not made.
     
  19. AviTrek

    AviTrek Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Re: aspect ratio & framing

    I agree CBS will keep the original framing. My comment was, that if they tried to crop it would be difficult because of the multi-leveled bridge. Just another reason why they won't crop(beyond original artistic intent)
     
  20. GNDN

    GNDN Commodore Commodore

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    In the end I'm sure that's for the best. There is no need whatsoever to change the framing. I'm just a little surprised that since the effort was made for TOS, that the 16:9 version was not included on the blu-ray release, but then I suppose that would have required additional disks.