Discussion in 'Voyager' started by Salinga, Jan 2, 2013.
DS9 and VOY were never going to have more than 7 seasons each.
We're fantasizing Dream. We can have whatever we want.
As a Niner, I'll say that 14 seasons of DS9 would be to much. But to capture what DS9 did, spread of those two shows, for 14 seasons....yes.
Interesting interview, but when taken into context that I've read Berman and Braga complaining that they were on a tight leash from the studio's execs and that a lot of the things that were done on VOY and ENT were basicly forced on them... I don't know what to believe anymore.
I will say, that I agree with a lot of what Moore said. About how the show didn't live up to its promises. But that's something we've always known. If it's all soley Braga's and Berman's fault, or perhaps from way more up top than that... who knows? And right now, who really cares anymore? What's done is done. I wish that, instead of whining and complaining about everything that's wrong with the show(s), people would talk more about what they liked about their favorite shows.
Gushing gets old quick.
it's about balance.
The dufus Jedi thought that bringing balance to the force was a good thing.
And maybe it was.
If they could have trained up 10 thousand Sith to balance off against the ten thousand Jedi. that would have been fine, unfortunately the execution of ten thousand Jedi brought balance with more expediency.
The Voyager is a lie. [/GLaDOS]
I read an interview with RDM back when all this was new. He said that (paraphrasing) when he moved over to VOY he was happy to be working with his old writing buddy again, but the atmosphere was different. Almost hostile. He felt like Braga didn't want him there, and it was not fun going to work every day. So he left.
Or something like that.
I'm pretty sure that's the interview the OP is referencing.
"Part of me is hurt, and a bit angry at Brannon on a personal level, as my friend, not as my boss. As my friend, I felt pretty pissed off."
I blame Jeri.
The dynamics of friendships change when you go from equals to one getting a promotion to be a boss. It almost sounds like Moore wasn't expecting that.
The cylons had a plan. Just they realized in the second season their plan sucked and then just started angsting that they couldn't really experience the human condition.
Actually their plan was, no humans survive the initial onslaught. After that they kinda winged it.
Yes please .
Well, I now read the whole interview (took a while) and I have to say, I agree on most things with him. And it shows, that Moore is really a writer that follows the legacy of Roddenberry. I remember Michael Piller talking about, how he pitched a story to Gene, and after listening, Gene just asked Piller: "What is the story about?" First Piller didnt understand, but after beeing asked again, it dawned to him, that a story in the Star Trek universe is not just about action or drama, it has to tacle a real and greater social or moral issue and tell something about that issue using the universe of Star Trek as a vehicle to do so. Piller learned that lesson and later applied it to TNG.
And Moore is a story teller, who wants to have every story to be about something and not just action - that's why he disliked VOY, because he felt, the show was not really about something but just easy, action based entertainment - "Fast Food Trek", so to speak.
He pretty much represents the exact same philosophy of Gene Roddenberry's way of telling a story.
I really would like to see Moore as Head-Writer/Producer of the next Trek TV-Show, because that's where Moore can really shine. And he seems to be someone, that respects the core of Trek, but would also throw everything over board and get somehwere completly new with Star Trek - and make a TV show about something again, within the universe of Star Trek.
I have to say: Star Trek had some damn luck with actors, writers and producers, some good people with convictions and heart, that not only regard Star Trek as a paycheck provider, but actually really love the show. Roddenberry, to start with - Piller, Moore.
It's probably not going to happen, but I would love it, if Paramount would go to Moore to make him head of the next TV Trek show. He really would create something special, I am sure.
I tend to see Ron Moore as a writer who was willing to apply Roddenberry's ideals to the actual human race.
Not even Roddenberry wanted to do that.
While Voyager could've been better, I will say that a Roddenberryesque approach was the last thing it needed. It took Roddenberry dying before anyone would even admit Starfleet was a military, despite it's primary mission being exploration.
Voyager really had all the tools it needed to be successful. The Maquis element was a great idea that was just poorly executed. The lost in space theme was an interesting concept too, if not wholly original. The crew had the potential to be pretty good too.
In execution it really was the most disappointing of all the Trek series to me. Note I don't say the worst of them all, just the most disappointing. It had all the pieces it needed from the start to really be great.
Chakotay started off REAL interesting in Caretaker and then basically got relegated to the background. So did the whole Maquis concept. They did the "will they get home" episode format WAY too early and WAY too often. Too many characters were just underdeveloped. They never figured out what they wanted to do with Kes, Torres took the angry snarling Klingon cliche to an extreme, and Kim well... fell completely flat. At least DS9 made an effort to improve on Bashir when this happened to his early version. Then on the other hand you have Paris who can do everything. Likable character, but hard to believe you have a superman anti-hero Mary Sue. Kim and Torres could've absorbed some of his strengths easy enough. Harry being the history expert and sci-fi fan to appeal to the fans, Torres designing the shuttles and engines from scrap while being a go-to commando, while Paris could still be the womanizing flyboy and be entertaining.
I went into Voyager pretty psyched. I wanted to love this show, I wanted it to be the best of all the Trek series. All the pieces were there from the beginning for some dramatic stories. Heck, TNG/DS9 both each pretty much spent entire episodes setting up the Maquis backstory for them to just completely ignore it pretty much. Voyager really could've been so much more.
Why? Was it the leather?
Well at first we assumed that Chakotay was from that colony of Indians from that TNG episode where Wes transubstantiated (based on the TOS episode here Kirk plays hookey after a bump to the head.) who had been transplanted by Godlike aliens to some place safe in space, because it was an origin story about the Maquis and the chartering of the Federation treaty with Cardassia.
Chuckles really tied the the subplots together.
TNG and DS9 had been building towards Chakotay just like the Hulk, Captain America, Thor and Iron Man movies had been Building towards the Avengers.
Berman, Taylor, et all, didn't just drop the ball on this one, they told the ball to go fuck itself.
"Um. He's from Earth not space. Space Indians, that's ridiculous. Yeah, there are still Indians on Earth that are totally completely into their culture despite world war three, just like Picard is completely into how French he is despite sounding so British... Yeah. But even so, our guy's a rebel, Chakotay doesn't want to know about this bows and arrows crap, becuase he's a superior 24th century citizen of the universe who all but hates being reminded that he's an Indian until he meets the alien hybrids remnants (This was either an elaborate hoax or they were extremely inbred to escape the notice of civilization. I'm thinking it was a hoax. Chakotay's father paid this troop of conmen to kick his son in the ass for being such a damn sour pus.) his people used to worship as gods, as a teenager on a bush hike, and that's when he (re)embraces that his tribe were the most special Indians of all because Aliens used to have sex with his ancestors who constructed a religion to grease up the sexual quid pro quo for the protection racket they were running."
Imagine if they stuck to the plan? If Chakotay tells a story to kathryn over a candle light dinner and a little too much wine about one of his ancestors named Kirok who saved the world at the expense of his beautiful wife, who just happened to be a distant great great grand aunt of his.
Which sums up that Chakotay, by marriage at least is tentatively related to the James. T Kirk and is a frakking legacy to TOS, which force an increase in TOS DVD sales!
Meeting your Gods is usually much more disappointing.
Heck why not go the whole hog and have Miramanee survive, mysteriously recovering from some residual powers of the obelisk after Kirk had left? And the baby is Chak's direct ancestor so you have real Kirk blood in him not just married blood.
I always wanted to hook up Janeway and Kirk.. this might have converted me to J/C.
Chakotay wasn't a Space Indian? Damn, I've been watching VOY with my own personal canon all this time. (Mind you, this is coming from someone who thought he was a Maori first time I watched it )
Separate names with a comma.