Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies XI+' started by Jetfire, Mar 12, 2009.
^Wait a minute, weren't the Remens ''native'' to remus?
The dissident Vulcans who left Vulcan 2000 years previous apparently took residence on both worlds, by looking at the ears of the Remans in Nemesis it would appear they have Vulcan/Romulan ears.
True and fair enough. But when you're raised to think of most things logically and scientifically things like this stick out, even in science fiction where ANYTHING frequently goes.
I think our current understanding of evolution is still very much in it's infancy and we only have Earth based lifeforms to base our understanding of evolution on. There's nothing illogical about alien species from other worlds having a form of evolution either slower or faster than ours.
We know that the proto Vulcans of Mintaka ("Who Watches the Watchers?") also have ridges. So, on ancient Vulcan, all Vulcans had ridges. Some gradually developed smoother foreheads, dividing the populace. Perhaps as tensions mounted, the mostly-smooth foreheads sided with Surak, developing their mental powers - and the mostly-ridged foreheads, accused of being more "primitive", planned their exodus.
The "Vulcan's Soul" trilogy of books further speculates that one group of the escaping future-Romulans were irradiated in an accident en route, and when they reached Romulus and Remus, these members bonded with an alien entity in order to survive on harsh Remus, becoming the Remans, complete with ridges and independently tapping into mental powers, leaving the Romulans (some ridged, some smooth) still without psi powers. During TOS we saw smooth foreheaded Romulans in charge - and lowly soldiers wearing helmets that conveniently covered their ridged foreheads.
Perhaps, the ridged Vulcans and the non-ridged Vulcans lived in different geographical locations, and that's why they were different? On Earth, people from China, Africa, and Europe look different from each other, so maybe it was the same with the Vulcans. And if that were true, then perhaps the non-ridged Vulcans were the ones who lived in the area where Surak was born (since he was also non-ridged, at least in The Savage Curtain...) while the ridged ones lived on the other side of the planet, which could have served to make them less likely to be inclined towards following him, especially if their people were fighting his. So if this were true, it would make sense that there would be more ridged Romulans with a few non-ridged ones, while there are more non-ridged Vulcans with (perhaps, though we've never seen one) a few ridged ones.
I know that on Earth, different ethnicities, while different, are not as different as ridged vs. non-ridged, but the Vulcans were an "older race" and had been evolving longer than we have (or so I'm lead to believe), and who knows if maybe, given the time and isolation, different ethnicities on Earth might evolve to be very different?
A lot of maybes and ifs and perhapses, I know, but it popped into my head and I had to post.
All of this aside, I always liked that the Romulans were ridged; it helped differentiate them from the Vulcans and personally I think it looked cool. But I do think it could have been toned down a bit, like on Tallera, who had fairly narrow ones, rather than Tomalok, who's ridges were quite wide. Commander Donatra had extremely wide ridges, but somehow she carried it off.
On the subject of Romulan telepathy: I personally believe that at least some Romulans could be telepathic just like Vulcans are, if they received the training that Vulcans must (I mean, you'd think they're taught a little about proper technique, etc, wouldn't you?).
Surely there are more than one race in the Trek'verse that has pointed ears? !?! That's quite a leap of logic you've made there. Unless there is more evidence to back this up, I don't think it is likely.
(And *if* it is true, a further reason ST:Nemesis should be de-canonized and forgotten)
Of course there is, there's the Mintakans. But from what i've learnt throughout my time watching Trek the dissident Vulcans colonised both Romulus and Remus and the Romulans in Nemesis called them their Reman Brothers which would indicate an old family tie. Same reason why they consider the Vulcans their cousins. You wouldn't see the Klingons considering the races of their conquered worlds as brothers. Would the Cardassians consider Bajorans their brothers?
I wouldn't say it is a leap. What exactly are the odds that the Romulans (dissident Vulcans) would colonise a planet next to another planet with a race which has pointy ears? Also remus doesn't appear to be the most life harbouring planet so how is it possible that the Remans evolved on such a planet? don't forget one side is in perpetual darkness (thus no plant life) and the other side is too hot to live or at least I think that's what Data said.
So Remus is basically like a moon except that it has an atmosphere?
I believe a Moon by definition must orbit a planet and Remus does not orbit a planet but orbits it's sun like Romulus. There's no reason to believe a Moon cannot have an atmosphere or contain plant life.
Oh, for some reason I thought that Remus orbited Romulus. And yeah, I guess a moon could have an atmosphere, but I think that in order for it to have the gravity to keep one it would have to be at least close to Earth-size. So the planet it orbited would have to be larger than the moon in order to keep it in orbit, right?
Correct. If there was a large planet orbiting our sun where Earth is right now and the Earth orbited that planet, Earth would technically be a Moon and not a planet. But we'd still be located within the habitable zone and therefore I think it would be still possible for life to have developed here but of course things would be astonishingly different.
If we are into wild speculation mode, I think a likelier scenario is that Remans were the original inhabitants of Romulus when the Romulans arrived - who then promptly enslaved them and eventually shipped most off to Remus to be used as hard labor.
Well to say they came from the beautiful planet of Romulus they sure are ugly monstrosities.
Another possibility could be that continual exposure to Dilithium causes mutational effects. So they are indeed Romulans but 2000 years of Dilithium mining and exposure has altered their appearance and improved their mental capabilities throughout the generations.
Why are we assuming that Romulans are not telepathic?
If you were out shopping or something, and ran into a human with nested v-brows like a Romulan, would you think "This doesn't look radically different," or would you think, "Holy shit, it's Rocky Dennis!"
Canonically, the Andorians and Aenar live on a moon.
The Female Romulan Commander (TOS) seemed to indicate that Romulans were not psi capable.
Also, perhaps the Romulans were originally Vulcans from a part of the planet with a mildly different(more/less arid and inhospitable)climate and their skulls developed differently over time in the way black Africans and Australian aboriginals tend to have thicker brow ridges than Caucasians.
Just another mechanical rice-picker related accident. Tragic, isn't it?
Fortunately, there was a Reman living nearby who was a skilled Nosferatu impersonator in his civilian life...
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