Roddenberry's Worst Ideas

Discussion in 'General Trek Discussion' started by ZapBrannigan, Mar 16, 2013.

  1. Foxhot

    Foxhot Commodore Commodore

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    Also (although since Roddenberry left by Year Three he cannot be directly blamed) by the final season the writing was so stagnant 90 percent of all landing parties were only KirkSpockandMcCoy. They even stopped bringing along the cannon fodder security. So there was much less suspense left. And Scott, Uhura, Chekov and Sulu had less to do than in Year Two.
     
  2. Hartzilla2007

    Hartzilla2007 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Not to mention they made it impossible for Picard to have line of sight on anything not directly in front of him in the chair.
     
  3. RPJOB

    RPJOB Commander Red Shirt

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    I agree that it would have been better if we had a larger supporting cast. MASH is a good example of having background characters that can step into the spotlight for an episode or two each season. Rizzo, for example had some nice bits in a few episodes but he was never considered a major or even minor regular character, It would have been nice to see more of Kyle for example or Dr. M'Benga. Chekov and Sulu, being on the command track should have been leading a number of landing parties rather than simply tagging along with Kirk & Spock.

    When Roddenberry was given the chance to submit a second pilot his story ideas were The Moega Glory and Mudd's Women. Not Trek's worst moment but neither set the tone as well as Peeple's Where No Mas Has Gone Before. Roddenberry was best at the broad strokes. Most other writers were better at telling compelling stories.
     
  4. CoveTom

    CoveTom Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I would agree, except I would qualify it as TNG season 4 and later. TNG seasons 1-3 had some pretty darn good music. When Dennis McCarthy was let off the leash, he could write some very good music. And Ron Jones was excellent as well. I really like the season 1 music, which is far more melodic and makes uses of recurring themes and motifs, including the main title theme. And then, of course, Ron Jones' score to "The Best of Both Worlds" is outstanding. Even early season 4 has some good scores, such as Jones' score for "Booby Trap."

    It was only around early- to mid-season 4 when they canned Jones and put McCarthy under tight restrictions that we ended up with sonic wallpaper.
     
  5. mos6507

    mos6507 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    There should always only be one chair in the center of the bridge, and it should swivel. It's iconic. The Enterprise-D and most other TNG shows broke that rule, which was bad.
     
  6. CoveTom

    CoveTom Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Not only that, but the original bridge design happens to also be the most efficient. So efficient that it was studied by our real life U.S. Navy. TOS, the TOS movies, and DS9 (on the Defiant) got it right and stuck to that. But TNG, the TNG movies, and Voyager unfortunately moved away from it and it made their bridges seem far less efficient, IMHO.
     
  7. Foxhot

    Foxhot Commodore Commodore

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    Also, absolutely no sensory psychologist wanabees on the bridge. Ever.
     
  8. Manticore

    Manticore Manticore, A moment ago Premium Member

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    Given that I was two when TNG premiered, I haven't felt this young since I started having to process ID verification submissions from people born in '95 submitting driver's licenses.

    :devil:
     
  9. ROBE

    ROBE Commander Red Shirt

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    On the TOS bridge if it isn't broken don't let some idiot "fix" it, I think they even considered having plants on the bridge.
     
  10. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    :eek:

    That's soooo bad.. but so likely. I can just see Data watering the potted palms by the science station.
     
  11. Captain Rob

    Captain Rob Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Didn't the Enterprise-E Captain's chair swivel? If not I'll pretend that it did.
    Hey ROBE. Nice to see Lara work her way into trekbbs.
     
  12. ROBE

    ROBE Commander Red Shirt

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    Another thing is the Enterprise's complete lack of realistic chain of command. Okay I accept for dramatic reasons a captain being more hands on than in real life.
    However Trek has been awful re ratings/enlisted.
    Apart from Yeoman Rand who disappears after a few episodes all main characters are officers.
    She then gets replaced by one off yeoman.
    It wasn't until O'Brien we had a Senior Chief petty officer and even he started as an officer and was retconned into being enlisted.
     
  13. TheGoodNews

    TheGoodNews Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Keep in mind that George Orwell did in fact observe some dramatic social changes in the Anarcho-Syndicalist controlled parts of Spain during the Spanish Revolution.

    "There was no unemployment, and the price of living was still extremely low; you saw very few destitute people, and no beggars except the gypsies. Above all, there was a belief in the revolution and the future, a feeling of having suddenly emerged into an era of equality and freedom. Human beings were trying to behave as human beings and not as cogs in the capitalist machine. In the barbers' shops were Anarchist notices (the barbers were mostly Anarchists) solmenly explaining that barbers were no longer slaves. In the streets were coloured posters appealing to prostitutes to stop being prostitutes." George Orwell - Homage to Catalonia (page 6)

    "Many of the normal motives of civilized life-snobbishness, money-grubbing, fear of the boss, etc-had simply ceased to exist." George Orwell - Homage to Catalonia (page 104)

    "In every country in the world a huge tribe of party-hacks and sleek little professors are busy 'proving' that Socialism means no more than a planned state-capitalism with the grab-motive left intact. But fortunately there also exists a vision of Socialism quite different from this." George Orwell - Homage to Catalonia (page 104)

    "As far as my purely personal preferences went I would have liked to join the Anarchists." George Orwell - Homage to Catalonia (bottom of page 116)

    This happened during the late 1930's. So it is possible under the right set of conditions. And remember, Iain Banks described his "Culture" series (which takes place in a moneyless, space-faring society) as Anarchists because he felt centralized control would be very impractical in space and that self-reliance and cooperation would be essential.
     
  14. kirk55555

    kirk55555 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    There were a lot of bad ideas (like no money) but there has always been one conversation I wanted to see.

    Imagine, its sometime inbetween Enterprise and TOS. A male admiral in charge of uniform design is talking to a female officer


    Admiral: Now, I want to talk to you about the new uniform design. These blue jumpsuits have been around since before the federation, so we've designed something new. We want to know what the female officers think. Will you look at these images?

    Female officer: Sure.

    Admiral hands over the images.

    Officer: Uh, you seemed to have forgotten the pants on the female uniforms.

    Admirals: Actually, we're really proud of that part. It...uh....makes the legs less sweaty. Its more effecient.

    Officer: Then why don't the males have to wear them?

    Admiral: A guy in a mini skirt? Outrageous.

    Officer: Female officers have the right to wear the same

    Admiral: Well, we're done for today. Thanks for the imput.

    Seriously, I get the real life reason, but in universe it seems very sexist to make all the women go from wearing basically the same uniform as the guys to wearing stupid mini-skirts. I know Number One in the pilot wore a normal uniform, but she is the only female officer I can think of in TOS (not counting movies, obviously) who didn't have to wear a mini-skirt. I don't see it being a very popular change. some may have liked it, but I have to imagine that the majority of female officers wouldn't take kindly to the idea that they would be forced to wear mini-skirts. But, knowing Star Trek, maybe it was only on Kirk's enterprise. If you serve on Kirk's ship, you have to show your legs :lol:
     
  15. TheGoodNews

    TheGoodNews Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Consider this Wormhole:

    "In most anarchist collectives money was abolished. 'Here in Fraga,' the local paper proclaimed in blazing pride, 'you can throw banknotes into the street and no one will take any notice. Rockefeller, if you were to come to Fraga with your entire bank account you would not be able to buy a cup of coffee. Money, your God and your servant has been abolished and the people are happy.'" - The Spanish Civil War by A. Beevor.

    As for running a restaurant in a moneyless economy:

    "In Barcelona the Ritz was used by the CNT and the UGT as 'Gastronomic Unit Number One' - a public canteen for all those in need...Everyone who went was supposed to have a pass from his local committee, but the guards 'refused to be bureaucratic.' Not only did few people attempt to eat twice but according to Langdon-Davies, little of the Ritz cutlery disappeared. The anarchists ascribed this to the fact that it now belonged neither to a private concern, nor to the state, the people did not steal from themselves." The Spanish Civil War by A. Beevor.

    Productivity was said to have improved under anarcho-syndicalism as middle men, top-down corporate control were replaced by total workers' control, thereby reducing operating costs and improving communication and coordination. Money wasn't a necessary incentive when there was greater abundance and the people were in control of their own means in a mutual aid economy.
     
  16. TheGoodNews

    TheGoodNews Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Or it may be that if one lives in one of the most monetized and commoddified societies in our globalized, neo-liberal economy, that the idea of a moneyless society seems incomprehensible to them. The effects of what Gramsci called "Cultural Hegemony."

    "Some collectives did in fact abolish money. They had no means of exchange, not even coupons." The Anarchist Collectives by Sam Dolgoff.

    "What does it mean, 'exact change?'" - Spock stepping off the bus in Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home.
     
  17. T'Girl

    T'Girl Vice Admiral Admiral

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    It occurred to me that the people throwing banknotes into the street could be charged with littering. But with no money, how would the offenders be fined?

    Captain. I'm also curious as to how you propose to explain to Starfleet Command that a starship will be sent each year to collect our cut.

    Mister Spock. I propose our cut be put into the planetary treasury and used to guide the Iotians into a more ethical system.


    Kirk and Spock in A Piece Of The Action, discussing money as if somehow they both knew exactly what it was. TheGoodNews, how would you explain Spock's lack of knowledge as to the meaning of "exact change?"

    :)
     
  18. yousirname

    yousirname Commander Red Shirt

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    Neither I nor anyone I know has ever used a spinning wheel, but I know what it is.
     
  19. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    He knows the words just not the cultural context.
     
  20. TheGoodNews

    TheGoodNews Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    I suppose the locals and the CNT would both look at it as a spontaneous, festive outbreak of joy among the newly liberated gentry and would know better not to interfere. Clean up time could wait and with everyone now acting in solidarity it would but only take a few minutes.

    An earlier line indicates that the Federation knew the Iotians to be imitators par excellence and would have copied the historic barbarism of stereotyped American gangsters in all its particulars to a tee. Kirk and Spock could have prepped with a briefing and could have learned the rest as they went along.

    As for Spock wondering what "exact change" means, as Dr. McCoy said, "he's not exactly working on all thrusters." And Kirk by his comment "they're still using money, we need to get some" knew money was used historically but obviously didn't understand some of its particulars like when he asked the Antique dealer if $100 was alot or shrugged when Spock asked what exact change means. Kirk is supposed to be a 23rd century man who flies around the galaxy studying strange new worlds, he probably doesn't have as must time as he'd like to routinely study 20th century colloquialisms. And what era, region and dialect of the 20th century would he focus on, anyway? Their mission was literally done on the fly and with very little time.

    Kirk: "I think he did a little too much LDS."

    People make mistakes y'know.