Roddenberry's Worst Ideas

Discussion in 'General Trek Discussion' started by ZapBrannigan, Mar 16, 2013.

  1. Crazyewok

    Crazyewok Commander Red Shirt

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    But why would you need Alcahol with synathol onboard? If you cant do without the real booze then you have a problem.
    And if synthahol existed then I bet beer day would be replaced with synthahol where ever whenever.


    Well yeah but sythahol onboard works.

    Well again YOU HAVE SYNTHAHOL if you want to stay at home and booze up all day then dont join starfleet. Otherwise have synthahol that does the same thing but which side go quicker and isnt addictive.

    So even though my repsonses seem ok after a few beers I should be ok to drive even though Im over the Drink driveing limit? Thats ok is it?
    Same with driveing hung over? That ok even though its shown to impair responses (normaly if hung over your still over the limit anyway?). No maybe it would not have made a diffrence in the situation but the principle still the same. And they did get caught out as the fact they were still probably slightly intoxicated was brought out in the trial, so it gave the klingons fuel to use.
     
  2. robau

    robau Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Meh. Different beers simply taste like different variations of shit to me. Except one I had which was called sour & sweet. Apparently that wasn't very popular at the brewpub though.
     
  3. marksound

    marksound Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Synthehol was just something they made up to sound futuristic, but we have it already. It's called "non-alcoholic" or "near" beer and "virgin" drinks.

    I'm pretty sure that in the 24th century there are rules regarding the consumption of alcohol by ship's crew, just like there are in today's military.

    The premise of the discussion, in my opinion, is a little ridiculous.
     
  4. T'Girl

    T'Girl Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Which is a good enough reason to move on.

    :)
     
  5. Push The Button

    Push The Button Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    .
     
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2013
  6. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

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    It was Voyager's "Dark Frontier" in which Tom Paris said that the "new world economy" took over in the late 22nd century, eliminating money. TOS referenced money in "Errand of Mercy" and "Trouble With Tribbles", then Kirk said they don't use money in Star Trek IV: The Voyage Home, and then Scotty mentioned buying a boat in STVI: The Undiscovered Country. Most recently, Kirk offered to pay for Uhura's drink in Star Trek.

    It's a little muddled, to say the least.
     
  7. CorporalCaptain

    CorporalCaptain Admiral Admiral

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    DS9 makes it clear that money is alive and well in both the Federation and the galaxy, and that the no money thing is confined to humanity, as a whole. DS9: In the Cards even ridicules the idea of a money-less society, comparing it, in so many words, to a whacked-out hippie commune.

     
  8. Bad Thoughts

    Bad Thoughts Commodore Commodore

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    I had always assumed that "no money" did not preclude having (electronic or virtual) currency. Within the Federation, currency would not be a commodity in itself, but that individual would still be credited for their labors and contributions. Within larger governments (first, United Earth, second, UFP), currency could exist as a measure of exchanges on an abstract level, as along as all the members agree to standards for earnings and exchanges. It would only be a problem when UFP citizens made contracts with those from other governments. The only time money was used was on DS9, and even then it seemed that Starfleet personel were not eager to conduct business in "latinum," but preferred to exchange materials.
     
  9. marksound

    marksound Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    This.

    There has to be some measure of exchange.
     
  10. REDrake

    REDrake Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    Yeah, something like "I scratch your back, if you scratch mine".

    They had some sort of currency in TOS, despite constantly saying they don't. Otherwise, there would be no market for Tribbles and no glasses to be bought as presents.
    I always assumed there was no currency within Starfleet, not within Federation as a whole. Or if there isn't then UFP is a communist organization. After all Leningrad is still called like that.
     
  11. Bad Thoughts

    Bad Thoughts Commodore Commodore

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    My own problem with the "no money" pronouncement was that as grandiose as is sounds, it really doesn't carry a lot of specific meaning. Although we could talk about the existence of media of exchanges since the use of shells by hunter-gatherers to get goods from early towns and cities, the nature of money is far from consistent. It has a history that shows money, both as a measure and as a commodity in and of itself, changes over time. No banks, no currency speculation, no investments, no payments between governments: these things developed only recently. Indeed, a fundamental problem for much of human history was the insufficient supply of coinage for anything but the largest transactions. That's why Roman coins would still be in circulations as late as the 19th century. I would find it difficult to expect that money would play the same role today that it will in the future, and I certainly would not want to return to the financial world my father grew up in.

    If there is any sense to be made of "no money," it has to come from Picard's takedown of Ralph Offenhouse, when Offenhouse expected that his wealth (if it still existed) would have empowered him above Picard. I don't remember that Picard says there is no money, but instead, he suggests that money doesn't carry the import it once had. I think he says that there is no need to accumulate things. That is removed from having or wanting things in particular, and Picard doesn't deny their existence. And although he doesn't say it, Picard suggests that he is more powerful because of his position, and money wouldn't change that.
     
  12. REDrake

    REDrake Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    Actually, Picard also mentions that they have no use of money to Lily in First Contact, when she asks how much the ship cost. The look on Lily's face is priceless...
    "You don't get paid?"
     
  13. Belz...

    Belz... Commodore Commodore

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    Picard's answer to that question highlights the naiveté of the "no money" principle in Trek.
     
  14. Bad Thoughts

    Bad Thoughts Commodore Commodore

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    Except Picard never really answers the question if he gets paid in any form. His next sentence is an explanation that wealth is not in and of itself a human goal. It is not an explanation of how his labors and contributions are rewarded and whether he is able to purchase things at will or if it is limited by the aforementioned contributions.
     
  15. Belz...

    Belz... Commodore Commodore

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    The answer is silly. Humans work for the betterment of themselves and humankind ? Who's insane idea was that ?

    Sounds more like an ideology or sales pitch than what really goes on in the Trek universe.
     
  16. Captain Clark Terrell

    Captain Clark Terrell Commodore Commodore

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    Isn't that what Picard was trying to do, to sell Lilly on his not being her enemy? What he said may seem contrived and artificial, but he didn't have time to go into detail about how much humanity had changed between Lilly's time and his.

    --Sran
     
  17. Bad Thoughts

    Bad Thoughts Commodore Commodore

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    It's probably no more contrived than the reasons elementary school kids learn for the Revolutionary War.
     
  18. Captain Clark Terrell

    Captain Clark Terrell Commodore Commodore

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    Probably not, but I don't have much confidence in most educational systems these days.

    --Sran
     
  19. T'Girl

    T'Girl Vice Admiral Admiral

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    How does that response anwser Lily's fairly direct inquiry of does Picard get paid?

    And separately, what about the majority of the Federation that isn't "the rest of Humanity?" What do they have going on?

    Ummm ... a disagreement over the way in which Great Britain treated the colonies versus the way the colonies felt they should be treated.

    The physical distance of the colonies from the British Parliment created a disconnect, the growth of a separate American culture over time, , the existence of legislatures in the individual colonies that largely took care of most governmental needs, growing interest in the intellectual concepts of "the enlightenment" as it pertain to governing.

    That's what I remember getting in early primary school. Basic and a bit fundamental, but contrived?

    :)
     
  20. Bad Thoughts

    Bad Thoughts Commodore Commodore

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    Contrived is not the right word. Canned is better. And in spite of some detail and nuance being taught, most children come out of elementary school seeing the war being fought for "liberty," even though "sovereignty," after "autonomy," is far more precise. That is the sort of historical knowledge that most students leave school with, where complex processes are reduced to simple explanations that hold at least some truth. Within the context of the Star Trek universe, "no money" would be such a reduction, where there is never any real explanation given to how economics works, only that things are different. Moreover, it's so vague that many different ideas can be read into the meaning of "no money." Ultimately, it was a stupid idea because it had no explanation behind it.