Roddenberry's Worst Ideas

Discussion in 'General Trek Discussion' started by ZapBrannigan, Mar 16, 2013.

  1. TheGoodNews

    TheGoodNews Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    We all know what a spinning wheel is, I think it's safe to assume. How many of us here would actually know how to use one confidently? Or know, anticipate or understand with confidence the jargon skilled people might use with each other when operating one?
     
  2. yousirname

    yousirname Commander Red Shirt

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    Never read A Tale of Two Cities but I imagine it mentions money being used at least once.
     
  3. CaptainStoner

    CaptainStoner Knuckle-dragging TNZ Denizen Admiral

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    My problem is finding a painted pony.
     
  4. yousirname

    yousirname Commander Red Shirt

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    We're on the same mission. :)

    T'Girl asks:
    ... thereby proposing the false choice of either using money or being entirely ignorant of its existence, even in humanity's past. The spinning wheel is just one example that demonstrates the falsity of the choice.
     
  5. TheGoodNews

    TheGoodNews Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    I'm just working a wee bit too hard, that's all. :lol:
     
  6. ROBE

    ROBE Commander Red Shirt

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    On the issue of skirts, they originally put the women in trousers and it was a woman's idea to put them in miniskirts. Likewise in the movies the women wore trousers and it was a woman's idea for a skirt to be added.

    My local restaurant has switched from trousers to dresses for its waitresses and it was the waitresses idea.
     
  7. ZapBrannigan

    ZapBrannigan Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    That's true. Any actress with a decent set of pins is willing to show them off, and for this I am grateful.

    And I read somewhere that at the time of TOS, women considered the miniskirts daring and fun rather than sexist, even though they knew the look would not fit a real military workplace.

    The only trouble is, Gene Roddenberry (according to INSIDE STAR TREK) was always insisting that skirts be shorter than costume designer W.W. Theiss wanted. He often sent actresses back to Theiss for hemlines to be shortened right up to the anatomical limit. His heart was in the right place; he just went a little too far.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2013
  8. ROBE

    ROBE Commander Red Shirt

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    That is why I think you new movie has the length right.
     
  9. mos6507

    mos6507 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    The new movie doesn't have to put women in skirts to show skin, as the trailer with Marcus in black lingere attests to.
     
  10. Foxhot

    Foxhot Commodore Commodore

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    Lingerie is overrated. But skirts are forever.

    Since we already saw lingerie in the trailer for 2009's film, it's clearly indicative of the subconscious attitudinal worth of futuristic women through the modern hyper-masculine perspective so prevalent in media today. Apparently they're required not just to doff upper garments but equally required to possess permanent anti-1960s pants. Which is typically shameful of the Abramized rebooted TOS zeitgeist and such.
     
  11. T'Girl

    T'Girl Vice Admiral Admiral

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    This was my take on why Spock didn't understand "exact change." If the request was for "exact monetary amount for fare" or something similar, then Spock likely wouldn't have been confused.

    I certainly don't take Spock confusion as a indicator that the 23rd (or 24th) century don't engage in monetary value exchanges for purchases.

    No physical money though? No problem.

    :)
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2013
  12. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Looked like regular blue underwear to me. A bra and panties.
     
  13. yousirname

    yousirname Commander Red Shirt

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    Kirk says in TVH: "They're still using money, we'll need to get some."

    Not "they're still using physical currency, we'll need to get some," and it doesn't make sense to interpret it in that way, either. Even if there was only virtual currency/credits/whatever they'd still need to get some. "They're still using money" there only makes sense if Kirk et al come from a time where they don't use money, of any description.

    Lily asks Picard "How much did this thing cost?" Picard responds "The economics of the future are somewhat different. You see, money doesn't exist in the 24th century."

    It again makes no sense for Picard to offer that as a response unless he is saying not that physical currency is obsolete but that money itself is no longer in use.

    Plenty of contradictions, of course. Possibly the only aspect of Trek where canon is more irretrievably self-contradictory is the precise workings of the transporter.
     
  14. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I'm sure it was just a shorthand. If he had said the second version, it would sound awkward.

    As for Picard: He's been known to lecture people pompously. :p
     
  15. T'Girl

    T'Girl Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Women's underwear in general is referred to as lingerie.

    Lingere on the other hand (in case mos6507 didn't know) means "licking."

    Freudian slip much?

    But Kirk's statement came just after the group witnessed a woman using coins (i.e. physical currency) to purchase a newspaper from a vending machine.

    And Picard dialog there is the sole reference to there being no money in the future.

    In the double episode Reunification, a woman solicited a gratuity from Riker, Riker doesn't respond with "Sorry dear, money doesn't exist in the 24th century." Instead he said that he doesn't carry money, indicating that Riker associates "money" with something you carry. Something physical.

    In 'Tribbles, Uhura went to the K7 station to do some shopping, and at one point offered to purchace a tribble, asking how much one cost. Now wait, Uhura wasn't carrying a purse and her uniform possessed no pockets, where was her currency? She was going to be paying yes, but not with physical "money."

    :)
     
  16. Takeru

    Takeru Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    And wasn't Crusher in the TNG pilot buying some really ugly fabric, telling someone to send her the bill? I don't remember the exact lines but she obviously intended to pay.
     
  17. yousirname

    yousirname Commander Red Shirt

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    Suppose they'd gone back to 2086 instead and found that no physical currency was in use. They'd still need to get some money, wouldn't they? That Kirk is reminded of that fact by seeing the use of physical currency doesn't lend itself to the interpretation you're presenting.

    No, Jake Sisko and Nog have at least one extensive conversation about it. Noonien Soong speaks derisively about the past: "People got sick, they needed money." Is he talking about physical currency there? In the context, it makes about as much sense to interpret it that way as it would to suggest that Soong is saying people don't vomit in the 24th century.

    Yeah, like I said, irretrievably self-contradictory.
     
  18. ROBE

    ROBE Commander Red Shirt

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    Even in the Harry Potter universe the wizards use money, gold, silver and bronze coins.
     
  19. maneth

    maneth Captain Captain

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    Women not being allowed to be Starfleet captains (I detest Turnabout Intruder). Granted, Roddenberry originally wanted a female XO, but that was turned down by the network execs as too radical.
     
  20. BillJ

    BillJ Admiral Admiral

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    I always took Lester's ramblings as that of someone who was plain crazy. But then I've always like Turnabout Intruder. :techman:
     

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