Revisiting Star Trek TOS/TAS...

Discussion in 'Star Trek - Original Series' started by Warped9, Mar 13, 2011.

  1. Gov Kodos

    Gov Kodos Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2004
    Location:
    Gov Kodos on Mohammed's Radio, WZVN Boston
    The commander is odd, a lot more could have been done to patch the story had she been revealed as a mole or double agent. Someone reluctant to help the Empire towards war rather in the vain of the first commander in 'Balance of Terror'

    The way Kirk was easily able to beam back onto the Romulan ship undetected, can be through her ordering actions that let him slip through. The romancing of Spock is a means to slip off the ship to avoid capture and interrogation by Romulan Intelligence. It also allows the character to appear as a competent officer and gives some interesting continuity to the shows look into Romulan culture from BOT.
     
  2. Warped9

    Warped9 Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2003
    Location:
    Brockville, Ontario, Canada
    Let's face it, the Romulan Commander would now have a choice: seek sanctuary with the Federation or be returned to her side and expect a lot of 'splainin' to do. Hell, if she goes back she's toast for how she not only let a prize like a Class One Federation starship get away, but also losing the cloaking device in the process.

    And I doubt the Romulan government would openly make much noise because it really makes them look bad.
     
  3. Gov Kodos

    Gov Kodos Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2004
    Location:
    Gov Kodos on Mohammed's Radio, WZVN Boston
    I like the episode, but she does come off as a love struck idiot rather than a good officer. That's why I like the spy angle. The character isn't played out as a stereotypically frail woman.
     
  4. Warped9

    Warped9 Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2003
    Location:
    Brockville, Ontario, Canada
    She was tapping into all that Spock love goin' around at the time. :lol:
     
  5. Gov Kodos

    Gov Kodos Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2004
    Location:
    Gov Kodos on Mohammed's Radio, WZVN Boston
    Nah, she really wanted to get a hold of McCoy's mint julep.

    As for Romulan security it looks about as competent as Enterprise's own. How many times did Lazarus wonder around, grab vital equipment and beam off the ship? Not to mention having said equipment in hallway dispensers. I can imagine engineering. Scotty explaining the panel saying this is the barium rod to scram the reactor and that is the cigarette lighter- don't mix them up. The fleet lost two ships that way last month and we don't want to lose a third. I understand Fontana's point about Romulan security, but that show had that problem through out its run.
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2011
  6. evilnate

    evilnate Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 1999
    Location:
    Hawaii
    I think you just summed up what my biggest problem with season 3 is. I don't think the season looks "cheap" when compared to the first two. In many ways, it looks just as good, and the matte work tends to be better. I don't think that, outside of a couple of really bad concepts, that the ideas behind the episodes were bad. The scripts could have used some work, but nothing was as confusing as "The Armegeddon Factor", for example. What it came down to was that the directors seemed to refuse to control the worst excesses of over-acting, by both the leads and the guest actors. Most of what people parody as "Shatnerisms" are most apparent in this season, but he's not the only one. Leonard Nimoy, James Doohan, and numerous guest actors really turned in some bad performances in this season. It's as if they knew the show was on borrowed time and everyone just decided to camp it up.
     
  7. Warped9

    Warped9 Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2003
    Location:
    Brockville, Ontario, Canada
    The thing about "And The Children Shall Lead" is also the missed opportunity. You're already starting with something potentially dark and creepy so why not go for it and unnerve the crap out of the audience? I could easily see that being done today only perhaps more graphically. But actually I'm thinking in terms of what's been done like in some of the best X-Files episodes where you could really creep folks out just by playing with their imagination yet without really showing anything.

    A little rewriting and a better director perhaps to keep things focused and you may really have something.,,
     
  8. Forbin

    Forbin Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2001
    Location:
    I said out, dammit!
    You'd think the cloaking device would have been bolted down, wouldn't ya?
    Kirk just lifts it out of its socket. Good thing it wasn't attached with those damn star-socket screws my roof rack uses - I can never find one of those wrenches!

    You should see how firmly real avionics boxes are mounted in military airplanes!
     
  9. MANT!

    MANT! Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2005
    Location:
    in Atomo-vision
    Think..Velcro...
    in the future, everyone's gonna use Velcro..even for billion credit starship avionics...
     
  10. Warped9

    Warped9 Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2003
    Location:
    Brockville, Ontario, Canada
    "Spock's Brain" **

    An alien steals Spock's Brain and kirk races against time to retrieve it.

    No matter how you try to describe this episode it's going to sound absurd. That said it would have helped significantly if they had started with a better title. Even something as plain as "The Controller" would have been a huge improvement. :lol:

    What gets me is I think there is a really interesting science fiction story at the heart of this: a living mind needed to maintain a functioning society. And there are some pretty creepy moments in it as well. But it's mostly undermined by poor choice in story elements.

    For one thing was it really necessary to have Spock's body brought along like some mechanized zombie??? In James Blish's adaptation I recall Spock's body being left aboard ship until the surgery was ready to proceed. As is it comes across as too absurd. Also was it really necessary to have the Morg women be total airheads??? A little nuance would have worked wonders here. But the last bloody straw was having Spock speak and direct McCoy through completion of the surgery. :wtf: :wtf: :wtf: And then to end the whole thing with a cheap laugh. Gimme a freakin' break!

    Most of the episode is played straight with few missteps, but every so often one of the aforementioned absurdities would ruin what had been accomplished up to that point. It's really hard to accept that Gene Coon could turn in such a botched effort in writing this.

    I'd like to add that I quite liked the design of the alien ship. Sadly, instead of enhancing the original retro design, TOS-R felt the need to change it completely for something more contemporary. :rolleyes:

    I like the story idea, but I'm disappointed with aspects of its execution. And all I can add is that as disappointing as it is I like it better than "And The Children Shall Lead."
     
  11. Gov Kodos

    Gov Kodos Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 23, 2004
    Location:
    Gov Kodos on Mohammed's Radio, WZVN Boston
    It's like the doors, the technology knows when you really want it to move or not.

    I really like Spock's Brain, but I also do admit to a fondness for the cheesiness of it. I can imagine the social division is sort of like the Eloi and Morlocks in the Time Machine. A better delineation of the societies and dependence on the controller might have helped. I would have prefered Spock's consciousness not speaking, his brain instead just the organic tool needed for the device.
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2011
  12. Maurice

    Maurice Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2005
    Location:
    Walking distance from Starfleet HQ
    Look at the aft end underside where you can see the straight lines of the polygons where it should be curved. Tesselation. Dead giveaway that someone skimped on the mesh.

    Oh baloney. Any spherical body so small that a 400 foot wide object could be seen disappearing around its rim and yet that body still displays significant curvature is so tiny it wouldn't even qualify as a small moon, let along a planet. Let's not even get into having enough mass to hold onto an atmosphere.

    It's a nice shot, but it's as idiotically designed as the TMP DE shot where the V'ger energy bolts rise from behind the Earth's horizon fully 50 times the size they were when seen previously.

    I understand you like the Remastered effects better, but you can at least admit when they screw up. :)
     
  13. Captain Robert April

    Captain Robert April Vice Admiral Admiral

    I think a little more effort in the stunt casting would've helped, too. C'mon, Melvin Belli? They couldn't have snagged a bigger name than a glory-seeking divorce lawyer?
     
  14. evilnate

    evilnate Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 1999
    Location:
    Hawaii
    That's added detail! :cool:
     
  15. Captain Robert April

    Captain Robert April Vice Admiral Admiral

    That was actually a D-6 battle cruiser. The rough underside is for grating large chunks of space cheese.
     
  16. scotpens

    scotpens Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2009
    Location:
    Los Angeles, CA
    Is that the really confusing episode that was patched together using outtakes from “A Taste of Armageddon” and “The Alternative Factor”?

    I agree, “And the Children Shall Lead” wasted a potentially good story concept. Children endowed with superhuman powers (telepathy, telekinesis, whatever) and/or controlled by a sinister force have made for some wonderfully creepy movies (think Village of the Damned and its sequel Children of the Damned, Children of the Corn, Firestarter).
     
  17. evilnate

    evilnate Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 1999
    Location:
    Hawaii
    Yeah...and you know what? "The Alternative Factor" still makes less sense! :lol:
     
  18. Forbin

    Forbin Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2001
    Location:
    I said out, dammit!
    Re the low-poly Klingons. Yes.
    I practically shouted "Oh, how crappy!" when I saw those shots. I wondered if they were using video-game-level low-poly meshes with cleverly-painted image maps.
     
  19. Tallguy

    Tallguy Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    May 2, 2005
    Location:
    Beyond the Farthest Star
    I do. There's a big difference between GR 1965 and GR 1987.
     
  20. Tallguy

    Tallguy Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    May 2, 2005
    Location:
    Beyond the Farthest Star
    I won't speak for W9, but several of us have stated again and again and AGAIN that there are many things about TOS-R we like A LOT and yet (this might just be me) we HATE the new WNMHGB FX, especially the gas cloud, er, barrier.