Reunification - makes no sense?

Discussion in 'Star Trek: The Next Generation' started by JoeZhang, Apr 17, 2009.

  1. JoeZhang

    JoeZhang Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Just caught this episode on the telly - how does this "invasion fleet" plan hold any water?

    So they fly those three Vulcan ships with 2000 troops into Federation space and we were suppose to believe they would be allowed to fly directly to Vulcan on the say-say of single video transmission by an ambassador who could have been brainwashed, faked etc? say what?

    So let's make believe that the Vulcan Defence Forces were having an off-day and they managed to get into transporter range and get the troopers down to the ground. 2000 troopers were going to hold the whole planet Vulcan? With what? really big hands? :lol:
     
  2. Praetor

    Praetor Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I assumed they'd planned some kind of suicide bombardment... but it's been a while since I watched so the ep might directly contradict this.
     
  3. sbk1234

    sbk1234 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Well, Joe, clearly you have given this a lot more thought than the writers and producers did.
     
  4. Red Ranger

    Red Ranger Admiral Admiral

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    Yep, such huge plot holes are why this ep is ultimately weak. There are things I enjoyed about the ep -- Picard and Data disguised as Romulans, the reaction to their get-up from the Klingon captain, the appearance of Spock, Worf singing Klingon opera -- but it's the weakest two-parter, even more so than Descent. -- RR
     
  5. Dane_Whitman

    Dane_Whitman Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    That's one of the plot holes, but one that bothers me even more is the easy (off-camera) way in which they manage to escape from the Romulan proconsul's office. That building should be a fortress, but no... Data has studied the schematics and they just walk out. Overall I still enjoy the episode though.
     
  6. Anwar

    Anwar Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I prefer to think that after Sela's repeated failures someone just humored this one last nutty plan she had just to prove to the Senate that she should be drummed out of their service and the whole thing was engineered to fail.
     
  7. JustKate

    JustKate Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I enjoy it too - it could have been better, of course, but I mean, it's got Spock. How bad can it be?
     
  8. JoeZhang

    JoeZhang Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I gave it about 30 seconds of thought while I was waiting for some red pepper soup (very easy to make and soooo tasty) to cool enough for me to eat me.

    I think even if the Enterprise hadn't been involved it would have gone down like this.

    Captain Plothole: Please prepare to be boarded, you will not be able to continue until we have inspected your ship.

    Ensign Made-up: Sir, they are making a run for Vulcan.

    Captain Plothole: Fire at will.

    Ensign Made-up: Ships destroyed. Wow, they must have been crazy if they thought they could get away with that.
     
  9. JoeZhang

    JoeZhang Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Oh I enjoyed the episode, the fact it didn't make a lick of sense doesn't always detract in fiction...
     
  10. The Badger

    The Badger Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Maybe Romulans believe that the average Vulcan would support them? It sounds crazy but there are historical parallels. During the Bay of Pigs invasion of Cuba the US Government and Intelligence services were convinced that news of an attack by a few hundred ex-Cuban nationals would trigger a mass anti Castro uprising.
    I've also heard (though I can't confirm the accuracy of this) that in the late 70's a group of Argentine civilians set off to liberate the Falkland Isles. Having heard the official account of how the Malvinas were Argentine sovereign territory, now labouring under British Imperial Aggression, they were very surprised on reaching the islands to find the locals speaking English, and not wanting to be 'liberated'.

    So perhaps the Romulans hoped that their troops would be reinforced by members of a vast pro-Romulan movement.
     
  11. JoeZhang

    JoeZhang Vice Admiral Admiral

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    That's actually pretty good - the "grunts" might have believed that there would be a popular up-rising by the people from their oppressive rulers.

    Then the episode could have ended like this


    As the final centurion was phased to the ground his last thought was "we got this mission seriously wrong.."
     
  12. The Badger

    The Badger Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    And of course, that episode shows that there are pro Vulcan activists on Romulus. Whilst it would be very lazy, even negligent, of the Romulan leaders to assume pro Romulan support on Vulcan, it is not that surprising when you consider the arrogance with which they are normally portrayed.

    "Sir, can we be sure the Vulcans will support us?"
    "Of course. They are a logical people. It is inevitable they will see the benefits of our way of life."
     
  13. Praetorian

    Praetorian Captain Captain

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    Also...what was the point of the Vulcan ships? Why all the work? I mean the Romulans didn't intend to pass as Vulcans, since Spock was supposed to announce the arrival of the "peace envoy"...

    Where they trying to get sympathy votes from the Vulcans? "At least they buy "made in Vulcan"..."

    And really..2000 troops? Lol... Sela said that once they were entrenched it would be almost impossible to drive them out...yeah right!

    The plan should have been to pass as random Vulcans, and carry tens of thousands of soldiers..

    Luring Spock would be a way to gather intel on how to acomplish this...
     
  14. Anwar

    Anwar Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Like I said, the whole thing was a setup to show the Senate what an incompetent Sela was (why the heck did they listen to her anyways, she was only in her early 20s!) to come up with such a ridiculous plan.
     
  15. Myasishchev

    Myasishchev Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I can almost buy Vulcan being successfully occupied by 2000 soldiers.

    Really, with the armaments available to people in the 24th century, 2000 soldiers could probably slaughter hundreds of thousands a day (we're actually supposed to believe this about the Jem'Hadar in WYLB, but I don't for a second--800 million in a few hours is beyond the logistical capabilities of anything but an occupation force that comes close to matching the population, and then big kill weapons like photon artillery or whatever would've wound up killing their own people!). An occupation force of 2000 could hold most major cities hostage, however.

    Defended, on the other hand... about as successful as the Cuban defense of Grenada, except since it was Vulcan, heartland of the Federation, imagine the Cubans sizing a small town on the Florida coast.

    I fully agree that the ending of Unification makes almost no sense. There are hundreds of easier ways to provoke a war with the Federation, which is what would've happened after the invasion. Maybe if their plan had been to sneak a suitcase photon torpedo onto Vulcan or something, it would make some sense, but then that seems cartoonishly evil.
     
  16. kitsune

    kitsune Captain

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    Unification still made more sense than All Good Things. But it wasn't as cool. :)
     
  17. Brutal Strudel

    Brutal Strudel Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Extremely bad. I remember how excited I was waiting for this and how disappointed I was when I saw it. Even Nimoy seemed to be having an off day.
     
  18. The Grim Ghost

    The Grim Ghost Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Nothing about this episode made sense to me. Not even Spock's motivations. Both cultures seemed to be thriving on their own.

    They have a common ancestry so..they HAVE to rejoin??
    Why does Spock have the right to start mucking around with Romulan culture? By TNG standards isn't that against the Prime directive?

    I'm not seeing your logic there Mr. Spock. :vulcan:
     
  19. kitsune

    kitsune Captain

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    The Prime Directive only applies to pre-warp cultures.
     
  20. The Grim Ghost

    The Grim Ghost Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    ^ Not in TNG. They went back and forth on that all of the time throughout TNG/DS9/VOY. Sometimes it only applies to prewarp civs. and sometimes it seems to apply to everyone.