Oh, those area really cool. So that bit that runs the front of the nacelle to the top is going to be "lit" and the rest is going to be a more uniform color? Reminds me of an air force drone almost, with the mounted cameras. Though one interesting thing you might consider with the way the light works there is the kind of pattern you might have. The TOS bussards, being the domes, basically had a "washing machine tumble" effect going on, with utter chaos swirling about. While prudent to retain that idea, it might also be rather cool if maybe you got a sense of a direction this time? Like having the particles swish backward from the center or something? Just food for thought. I actually really like this look here. It's sleeker, but much more subtle. Almost reminds me of an idea I had of a "what if?" They did a Star Trek Movie just after the original series ended, and spent a little money to update the E in some ways for big screen presentation without going total redesign. I could see this being something they might have done. Jefferies did want to refine the look of the engines, even as early as his TOS concept art he was looking at ways to sweep the pylons back and change the nacelles to something less "simplistic"
Detail is tricky. I have always loved the steamlined look of the TOS E. Over the years I resisted the thought of gridlines (until I could no longer ignore the evidence) and really disliked seeing modelers add them to their otherwise nice builds particularly in heavy application. I still don't like them even when applied subtlely. It strikes me as so counter to MJ's original overall aesthetic. And, it must be noted, he was against adding that particular detail and the penciled gridlines were added by someone else at Gene Roddenberry's insistence. But other detail can be just as tricky, and subjective. Good detail has to fit the design's overall aesthetic and design approach and helps the design look more convincing. Too little and the design looks too simplistic and unbelievable and yet too much (or the wrong kind) can ruin the overall effect one is reaching for. MJ's initial Phase II approach was a modification of the his previous work. It was meant to obviously be the same ship we were familar with but with a few minor changes. The TMP refit opted to completely redesign MJ's essential concept for the ship to the point that you have to really squint to believe the TMP refit is really the same ship as the TOS E. I've stated before that I'm (perhaps in the minority) not fond of MJ's Phase II refit. I don't feel he improved on his original work and what he wrought didn't click for me. I think the TMP refit is a much more successful "modernization" of MJ's original design--in of itself--but I also feel they went too far in some respects to the point of adding some things I didn't care for or feel were needed. The pearlescent aztec painting scheme along with the extraneous hull lighting are two of the most obvious examples of things that went too far in my view. While interesting they also looked gimmicky. I'm trying to bridge the gap between the Phase II and TMP refit designs. I'm aiming for something that looks more convincing in terms of being able to accept the refit really is built from the same familiar pre-existing ship. And yet I can appreciate integrating an added level of detail to look more "real" as was the intent of the TMP design. So step-by-step I will be reconsidering how everything can be "upgraded" yet without going too far. Will the registry font stay the same (as original) or should I adopt the font used in TMP or do I use something else. How much do the pennants need to be changed--did they go too far in TMP with something that looked rather busy with UNITED FEDERATION OF PLANETS plastered all over the ship? What detail adds to the design and what detail detracts? Hmm.... I have to add the while the swept pylon design is a key element signaling an upgrade I retain an appreciation for how well the upright pylons work for MJ's overall concept. I think it is entirely possible to refit the design and retain the upright support pylons (albeit a tad thicker).
While working this out I'm thinking of added detail that the original 11 footer lacked and they addressed with the TMP refit. I'm thinking that some things that might have been painted on the 11 footer could be done as very subtle physical details on my conjectural model. I am also tweaking some existing details as well as adding some very subtle details that weren't there before but remain in keeping with the overall aesthtic One example are those triangular shapes on the saucer's underside. They did away with those on the TMP refit, but I'd like to retain them albeit with a hint of added physical detailing. Perhaps a subtle grid or groove/corrugated surface effect or something. One detail I'm wrestling with are the ship's phaser banks. The 11 footer had no such detailing and fans could assume the banks were retracted behind hull panels. I could do that. The TMP refit opted for the idea used by Franz Joseph in his blueprints and I never really cared for that idea. I am presently thinking of another possibility that is only nebulous at this point. The TMP refit opted to have a large and unmistakable photon torpedo launch system. I'm leaning toward something much more unobtrusive as was suggested by what we saw in TOS. There will be a gangway hatch on the saucer's port side. There will also be a circular like docking access hatch behind the bridge as well as on each side of the secondary hull. I'm also considering a different approach to lighting that could help convey the idea of changing technology.
Looking great, as always. Are you giving any thought to internals? Like where the Jeffersons Tubes might go?
Right on! They only move up. Sorry, couldn't help myself I listen to a Star Trek podcast called "Dork Trek" , and that's what they call the Jefferies Tubes.
I like how you have the mounted to the secondary hull a bit forward of TOS. My problem with the original has always been how they look like they go right into the shuttle landing bay.
I just decided to stop in on this thread and share some thoughts. What Warped9 is doing here is remarkable, and has much potential. It can go in many different directions. It could blend with what we saw with TMP or with the recent "Phase II" fan films, or it could go in another direction entirely. It could be a 3D CGI outgrowth of conceptual sketches, or it could keep evolving into its own comprehensive vision, depending on one's aims. Several years ago, Adam Turner, aka Icy_Penguigo, produced some pseudo-Star Fleet Universe art on this forum. One of Adam's project was something called "X-Technology", which looked like post-TOS, maybe TAS-era or post-TAS, but not quite TMP-era. One of the renderings of this X-Technology was the Federation Starship U.S.S. Vincennes, NCC-1749. Vincennes had the basic shape of a Constitution-class starship, somehow in a weird though visually intriguing design limbo between TOS and TMP. It looked like the Federation and Klingons were experimenting with new technologies and coming up with prototypes, derived from existing FJ-style designs with some TMP design cues thrown in: Vincennes - Image 1 Vincennes - Image 2 Vincennes - Image 4 Vincennes - Image 9 Vincennes - Image 10 Vincennes - Image 12 Vincennes - Image 15 Vincennes - Image 16 Vincennes - Image 18 Adam also produced some images of an X-Technology Klingon cruiser derivative of the D7 which looked like it could give the K'T'inga a run for its money. I wanted to share these links in this thread because I though that, in some awkward way, what Adam was doing several years ago bears some resemblance to what is being discussed here. I have always had very strong mixed feelings about what the TMP redesign did to alter the Enterprise's texture and profile (adding the new torpedo pods to the dorsal/"neck", the back-swept nacelle wings, the new nacelles, the new "dish", the new upper and lower saucer domes and the assemblies around them, the new lettering on the hull, the excessive "aztecing". But what Adam did seems, in many ways, superior to what TMP did... and the aborted "Phase II" in the late 1970s. Just wanted to share...
Ever since I got my first AMT model of the TMP refit I had this thought of how elements of the refit could br retconned or translated into TOS. That mightn't have been exactly how I thought of it at 20 years of age, but there was some vague dissonance going on back then in my younger mind. This idea would crop up every now and then over many years pondering what form the Enterprise could take if I tried to reconcile TOS and TMP. Although I had sketched out some ideas over the intervening years it wasn't until more recently when I had developed some measure of proficiency with this form of 3D modeling that I felt competent enough to really explore something nagging at me for over thirty years. Part of what changed was a clearer concept: I wanted to see if a more TOS like design aesthetic could be translated to the big screen. Rather than retcon the TMP refit into the TOS style I would explore building on the TOS E in my own way. I would only adopt TMP elements if I felt they could be integrated into my concept. The swept support pylons are not a TMP idea. They might not even have been a Phase II idea. It's possible MJ had this idea during TOS and finally applied it to Phase II. The TMP photon torpedo launcher attached to the dorsal was originally a main phaser array for Phase II. The bridge docking port is an expansion of the dual turbolift system for Phase II. The slim nacelle concept was featured in Phase II but, again, it's an idea that might actually have arisen during TOS. The TMP refit was not really a "refit" or upgrade to the TOS E--it was a complete redesign that merely retained the overall conceptual form. It conformed to then current ideas about sci-fi hardware design and showed influence taken from Star Wars. I understand that the original 11 footer would simply not work on the big screen. It might be argued it wouldn't work as is for contemporary television. But I don't think it has to be completely re-imagined to work on a larger scale. So the trick, for me, is to make the TOS design work on a larger scale without drastically changing so many things I think were good about MJ's original design. The nacelles are a case in point. I really disliked the Phase II nacelles and the TMP nacelles are just much nicer versions of the Phase II design. I tried a number of variations of my own and nothing seemed to really click for me. Then I got the idea I'm exploring presently: the fore part of the nacelle is a streamlined version of the TOS cylinders that flow aftward into something somewhat remeniscent of the TMP nacelles. The end result is something, hopefully, that looks sufficiently familiar while also looking more "modern" and more advanced than what preceded it. The nacelles are an example of starting with a general concept and seeing it evolve into something (I think) better integrated into my overall intent. So how much and what should I change and still manage to look immediately recognizable? Thats the exercise I find myself going through with every element and detail I add to the model.
I'm really not digging the impulse deck, but I'm not quite sure why yet. Other than that, there are a few other things that don't set well with me but I think it's more due to the model's unfinished state and will look pretty great once it have windows, textures, and final lighting. But that impulse deck.... can't quite peg what bugs me about it. It sure does look like a happy middle ground between MJ and AP. But something about it... Sorry I couldn't be more specific. --Alex.
While I'm okay with it in general I must say it took me awhile to work out something that worked. And there is also the fact I'm not quite done with it yet and there is a bit more to be added to it.