Requiem for Methuselah (Spoilers)

Discussion in 'Star Trek - Original Series' started by ZapBrannigan, Feb 17, 2013.

  1. RAMA

    RAMA Vice Admiral Admiral

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    No, you can't read that at all based on anything in the episode.

    KIRK: Stay out of this. We're fighting over a woman.
    SPOCK: No, you're not, for she is not.
    (Flint thumps Kirk, then repeatedly throws him across the room)
    RAYNA: I cannot be the cause of this. I will not be the cause of this. Please stop. Stop! I choose where I want to go.
    (The men stop fighting in astonishment)
    RAYNA: what I want to do. I choose. I choose.
    FLINT: Rayna!
    RAYNA: No. Do not order me. No one can order me!
    KIRK: She's human. Down to the last blood cell, she's human. Down to the last thought, hope, aspiration, emotion, she’s human. The human spirit is free. You have no power of ownership. She's free to do as she wishes.
    SPOCK: Gentlemen, I urge you to stop. There is a danger.
    FLINT: No man beats me.
    KIRK: I don't want to beat you. This is no test of power. Rayna belongs to herself and she claims the human right of choice to be as she wills, to do as she wills, to think as she wills.
    FLINT: That's what I've worked for.
    KIRK: Rayna, come with me.
    FLINT: Stay.
    RAYNA: I was not human. Now I love. I love.
    (She collapses. McCoy checks for a pulse)
    FLINT: You can't die.
    KIRK: What happened?
    SPOCK: She loved you, Captain. And you, too, Mister Flint, as a mentor, even as a father.....

    .....MCCOY: Well, I guess that's all. I can tell Jim later or you can. Considering his opponent's longevity, truly an eternal triangle. You wouldn't understand that, would you, Spock? You see, I feel sorrier for you than I do for him because you'll never know the things that love can drive a man to. The ecstasies, the miseries, the broken rules, the desperate chances, the glorious failures, the glorious victories. All of these things you'll never know simply because the word love isn't written into your book. Goodnight, Spock.
    SPOCK: Goodnight, Doctor.
    MCCOY: I do wish he could forget her.
    (McCoy leaves. Spock goes over to Kirk and initiates a mind meld)
    SPOCK: Forget.
     
    Last edited: Feb 18, 2013
  2. Timo

    Timo Admiral Admiral

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    Buying a planet is indeed a peculiar concept. One might well assume it comes with certain "small print" clauses, much like buying a cross-country vehicle hereabouts until recently carried the obligation to hand it over to the government in certain types of crisis, for no recompense or promise of return.

    Flint's case is a rather flimsy one anyway. What possible claim does he have to the legal property of this Mr. Brack?

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  3. gottacook

    gottacook Commander Red Shirt

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    Yes, but it's equally utterly absurd that Spock should recognize the handwritten piano score as the work of Brahms. Doesn't matter, I love the episode anyway and always have. (To me the Brahmsiest part of the waltz is the aforementioned "bridge that's dialed way down," the contrasting material in a new key region.)

    It would have been nice if the epidemic were days and not hours away from crisis point, but this was one of the final episodes and story editing was not on anyone's mind; people were looking for the exits and lining up other work.
     
  4. Just a Bill

    Just a Bill Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

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    I think Kirk's aggressiveness on the ryetalin falls under what we today call "eminent domain." Starfleet will situationally exert ownership over private property when there is an exigent public need, and may not always do so in a fair or explanatory manner. Crisis tends to give people a sense of entitlement to force others to "do the right thing."

    As for buying an entire planet, I can imagine this wouldn't be all that difficult if you found a king/prince/sultan who owned several small, unused worlds and your offering price was an irresistible fembot, programmed to the seller's specifications.
     
  5. RPJOB

    RPJOB Commander Red Shirt

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    Quark's cousin Gaila owned his own moon and nobody seemed to think that was odd or unusual. Planets may be a dime a dozen in the future. Old Spcok appears to have spent no more than a week finding a new planet for the surviving Vulcans in ST09.

    It doesn't matter as it's stated as fact that the planet was sold to Mr. Brack. No matter how it looks Kirk still had no right to take so much as a pebble off the planet. It can be assumed that there was no case to be made under "eminent domain" since they didn't bring that up after discovering that the planet was privately owned.
     
  6. CorporalCaptain

    CorporalCaptain Admiral Admiral

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    Sez you. I have no problem with it. Ultimately, neither did Flint.
     
  7. ZapBrannigan

    ZapBrannigan Commodore Commodore

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    The eminent domain type of justification is a pretty good one.

    Anyway, from a meta standpoint we know the teaser had to be harsh and dramatic to get people interested and make them stick around past the commercials.

    If it weren't for that show biz need, Kirk could have handled the teaser a lot better. He could have said, "Mr Flint, don't send us away until you know all the facts." And then played to Flint's compassion and ego: "You can save every life aboard..."
     
  8. Pavonis

    Pavonis Commodore Commodore

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    What does ownership of a planet entail? Merely the right to inhabit it, or ownership of everything from core to crust? Perhaps there are degrees of "planet ownership"?

    And why is the thread title marked with spoilers? The episode aired over 44 years ago. If someone hasn't seen it by now, they don't have any reasonable expectation that others will help them avoid "spoilers".
     
  9. ZapBrannigan

    ZapBrannigan Commodore Commodore

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    I'd say the Federation via Star Fleet took physical control of a vast swath of solar systems that were totally uninhabited. The government says "This is ours because we got here first. And now we'll sell the acreage to our citizens so the new lands will be developed and put to productive use, and incidentally increase the chances that we can hold the solar systems we've claimed and someday levy taxes on them."

    In STAR TREK's founding proposals, Roddenberry knew that planets with life would be the exception.
     
  10. ZapBrannigan

    ZapBrannigan Commodore Commodore

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    We should aways hope that new fans are finding STAR TREK, and they haven't seen every episode yet. Some of them might drop in here to check us out.
     
  11. Pavonis

    Pavonis Commodore Commodore

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    Spoilers are for material that hasn't been released, not stuff that is four decades old.
     
  12. plynch

    plynch Commodore Commodore

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    One of my faves. I just plain like it. For all the reasons mentioned. And the flaws don't bother me, since it's sixties TV. You just roll with it and take the good where you find it.
     
  13. Gary7

    Gary7 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    What's also kind of pathetic is that... well, I can't believe that the ONLY ryetalyn deposit is in direct vicinity of Flint's mansion. Couldn't they have located a ryetalyn deposit on the other side of the planet, out of his reach? The way Flint describes his robot (M4), it appears to be a single servant ("butler") and guardian. His first one was destroyed by Mr. Spock, and so Flint made another--"Too useful a device to be without, really. I created another", instead of another existing unit of his robot fleet showing up to serve in place of the previous M4. Additionally, with the detected intrusion in the beginning of the episode, you'd expect at least several of these things homing in on the landing party, given the rarity of encroachment. So, Flint clearly doesn't demonstrate the resources to have defensive coverage of the entire planet. If he did, perhaps there would have been an array of robot generation machines strategically placed around the planet, like in TNG's "The Arsenal of Freedom". Anyway... just a rather easy nit-pick of the episode.
     
  14. GSchnitzer

    GSchnitzer Co-Executive Producer Moderator

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    "I know who you are. I have monitored your ship since it entered this system."

    If he can monitor the ship in orbit, I presume he can monitor his whole planet. If he can shrink down the Enterprise and haul it down from orbit with the push of a button, I presume he could be similarly formidible against a landing party on the other side of the planet.
     
  15. Timo

    Timo Admiral Admiral

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    Yes, it seems Kirk should know he is going to butt heads with this Flint character no matter what.

    Trying to skulk around the obstacle is not a particularly good strategy here. Trying to win a pissing contest would be a good strategy if Kirk from the start knew that the planet fell under his apparently very broad jurisdiction as a frontier lawman - as a Federation subject aware of the overall power of the Federation, Flint should consider long term consequences and yield to Kirk's authority, regardless of Flint's powers.

    But does Kirk realize Flint is a Federation citizen on a Federation world? Kirk chooses the planet by taking some sensor readings, and indicates no familiarity with it whatsoever: it's just "a small planet in the Omega system" to him.

    (Incidentally, would that be the same Omega system where Captain Tracey found a way to live long and prosper? These single-Greek-letter designations are no doubt abbreviations - but in theory, there's nothing to say that this couldn't be the same system as in "Omega Glory", an episode without a stardate. If the Exeter incident has not yet taken place, Kirk could easily overlook the goings-on on planet IV, as he enters the system with rhyetalyn blindfolds on. If said incident is in the past, ditto - and during the incident, Kirk would have had no reason to pay attention to planet III and the one hermit living there, possibly shrouded from cursory sensor scans. :devil:)

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  16. ZapBrannigan

    ZapBrannigan Commodore Commodore

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    Omega IV and "a small planet in the Omega system" called Holberg 917G. They could absolutely be in the same solar system.

    Flint would certainly have ignored the Exeter and Enterprise in "The Omega Glory," and Kirk et al might very well not mention the Yangs and the Combs in "Requiem."
     
  17. Forbin

    Forbin Admiral Admiral

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    I said out, dammit!
    As to buying a planet, I always imagined the planet belonged to no one in particular to begin with. Flint (Brack?) didn't buy it FROM someone, but paid some fee to some overseeing agency for the right to settle it.
     
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  18. Ssosmcin

    Ssosmcin Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Well, it's safe to assume the series as happening in chronological order for the most part. I tend ignore stardates since they were nonsense back then, so The Omega Glory happened nearly a year before. Even so, there's no reason for Kirk to mention it to Flint. "Oh by the way, we were just a planet or so away last year. Hey, did you have anything to do with them having an American flag and the US Constitution? Hm? What's that Spock? Oh yes, whole crew. Dying. Never mind."
     
  19. ZapBrannigan

    ZapBrannigan Commodore Commodore

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    That's funny! As I understand it, "The Omega Glory" was originally written before STAR TREK's time setting was settled on, and the story was about humans from Earth who had colonized this distant planet maybe a thousand years prior to the episode. Once they put STAR TREK only 300 years in the future, "The Omega Glory" made a lot less sense / required a flabbergasting coincidence of identical documents.
     
  20. Timo

    Timo Admiral Admiral

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    ...Or a time-traveling obsessive patriot from Earth, with copies of important paraphernalia. Sort of like John Gill with a time machine.

    Stardate order helps us with, say, the Khan-knows-Chekov issue ("Catspaw" comes before "Space Seed"). Moving "Omega Glory" from its production slot to a later point in the timeline would be beneficial for a very similar reason: Galloway dies on Omega, yet the character is also seen in "Turnabout Intruder". Having "Omega Glory" take place after "Turnabout Intruder" is a fairly obvious solution without major downsides...

    Timo Saloniemi