Renumber The Doctors?

Discussion in 'Doctor Who' started by intrinsical, Nov 24, 2013.

  1. Sindatur

    Sindatur Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Hurt Doctor absolutely redeemed himself. A desperate man, who could no longer accept the universe burning and put a stop to it with his own Race's Existence. He was talked out of it, after being born to do it. All Future Doctors have to lay down at HurtDoctor's feet and thank him for not putting that blood on their hands, like they all had previously, before they regretted it enough to do something about it.

    I don't think we should renumber, I think we should acknowledge him, by calling him 8' (Eight-Prime). He only came to be, because Eight had an opportunity to create a Warrior to do what he wished he had the hearts to get his hands dirty doing. And after he did what he was born to do, he let his future selves show him a better way, so he could be The Doctor, when no one else, ever, could be in that place.

    I think Eight-Prime honors him as unique (The Get it done part of 8) and puts him in as a Doctor without changing the numbering :shrug:
     
  2. Pavonis

    Pavonis Commodore Commodore

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    If we're going to number the War Doctor, I'd say he's Nine and Eccleston is Nine Prime (since he was the first and primary Ninth Doctor that we saw).
     
  3. DWF

    DWF Admiral Admiral

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    John Hurt's regeneration was a planned one with the help of the elixer of life from the Sisterhood, so in a way he exists outside of the normal regeneration cycle.
     
  4. Pavonis

    Pavonis Commodore Commodore

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    Does it? The regeneration was guided by the Sisters of Karn, but it was part of his regeneration cycle. They just allowed him to choose, rather than letting it be random. There's no hint that it's some kind of "free" regeneration, or one that "doesn't count". That's an idea for people who must have the Doctor count match up with the order in which they were introduced. It's not necessary from a narrative point of view.
     
  5. Emperor-Tiberius

    Emperor-Tiberius Commodore Commodore

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    Actually, I think every Doctor after should thank ELEVEN, of all Doctors, because it was HIS idea to prevent Gallifrey's destruction and lock in a pocket universe. Without Eleven, Gallifrey would have fallen (or did fall, whatever).

    8.5 is good enough, then. :p
     
  6. Newspaper Taxi

    Newspaper Taxi Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    When taking the question of the number of incarnations, one must also keep in mind that:

    *The Doctor has had incarnations previous to "one" (Brain of Morbious)

    *The Doctor is Half Human (Telemovie)

    *The Doctor is 'more than just a timelord' (7th Doctor's era)

    *The 10.5/11.5/metacrisis Doctor (At the end of the fourth season of modern Who; forget the episode name)

    *River Song used her regeneration energy on the Doctor, possibly altering numbers (Let's Kill Hitler)

    *The Valeyard and the Curator

    *The Peter Cushing Doctor
     
  7. Emperor-Tiberius

    Emperor-Tiberius Commodore Commodore

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    Rumors persist that the Matt Smith Doctor is the last iteration of the Doctor, in his original life cycle that is. The Metacrisis Doctor will be regarded as Ten's 'vanity' or something, wasted regeneration energy.
     
  8. Photoman15

    Photoman15 Commodore Commodore

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    I say there is no natural limit. It was a limit imposed by the TimeLords. If there were a natural limit, how can they "give" another set to the Master (or anyone else)?

    As for the numbering, you can say whatever bull you want to make up to appease your OCD, but: 1-8 remain the same, then
    Hurt is 9
    Eccleston is 10
    Tennant is 11
    Smith is 12
    Capaldi will be 13.
    There is no limit no with the regeneration police gone (for now).
    In one episode, Four said he's had 107 lives so far, so that 12 is on shaky ground all around.
     
  9. Ar-Pharazon

    Ar-Pharazon Vice Admiral Premium Member

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    I've always been in this school of thought. Only time will tell of course.
     
  10. Spocktapus

    Spocktapus Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    I just realized that with all the "fall of the eleventh" stuff leading up to it, there's a good chance Matt Smith's Doctor will explicitly be referred to as the eleventh in the Christmas special. Personally, I'm in favor of renumbering, confusing as it is, because that seems to be the intent of the anniversary special, but I predict that the show will disregard that going forward.
     
  11. Awesome Possum

    Awesome Possum The Friendly Face of Brutal Facism Moderator

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    He's the War Doctor but also the 9th incarnation of the Time Lord who normally calls himself the Doctor. So 11 is the 11th Doctor, but also the 12th incarnation. So the next Doctor will be the 13th incarnation, which is backed by him joining his 12 predecessors at Gallifrey. I imagine the regeneration limit will be brought up and dealt with during the next season. Maybe if he finds Gallifrey he is given a new cycle as a reward for stopping the Time War and saving them from themselves.

    In time this will probably become an in-joke like UNIT's dating system.
     
  12. Photoman15

    Photoman15 Commodore Commodore

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    That's why Trenzalore will NOT be the final resting place of the 11th. It's too late for that. The Doctor (Smith) is the 12th, so the "prophecy" is wrong.

    Plus the fact he's just met a future self (the Curator Doctor).
     
  13. DWF

    DWF Admiral Admiral

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    Moffat isn't changing the numbering himself, he doesn't count Hurt's Dcotor as being the Doctor since he refuses to call himelf the Doctor.
     
  14. Pavonis

    Pavonis Commodore Commodore

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    He doesn't count the War Doctor as the Ninth Doctor, but he is the ninth incarnation. The numbering doesn't change, but the War Doctor does count toward the 13-regeneration "limit".
     
  15. DWF

    DWF Admiral Admiral

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    Unless you count the faces in The Brain Of Morbius as being past Doctors then no. Personally I don't but many do and that also adds to the count of various Doctors.
     
  16. Lance

    Lance Commodore Commodore

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    ... which he said in an interview given before the broadcast of the special. Moffat could just have been avoiding giving away the surprise. We won't really know the 'truth' until the series itself confirms or denies it either way (assuming that it does).

    IMO whatever Moffat claimed in that interview, his script was far more explicit than that. :)
     
  17. Sir Rhosis

    Sir Rhosis Commodore Commodore

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    However we might debate and go on and on, supporting our opinions, the simple truth of the matter is that it will stay the way it is now out of habit and convenience. I guarantee it. 9 will refer to Eccleston, 10 to Tennant, 11 to Smith 12 to Capaldi, the "War Doctor" to Hurt.

    Sir Rhosis
     
  18. The Mirrorball Man

    The Mirrorball Man Vice Admiral Admiral

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    As you said, he can change his mind at any time, but no, his interview was far more explicit, considering that it addressed the matter without any ambiguity, whereas the script didn't say anything whatsoever about numbering.
     
  19. Lance

    Lance Commodore Commodore

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    ^ I do apologize, I keep inappropriately refering to 'the script' when I really mean 'the episode as broadcast'. I agree that his script certainly errs definitively on the side of the status quo in it's numbering of the Doctors. On the other hand, the episode itself seems to bum around the issue, and tries to imply every possibility without actually confirming any of them.
     
  20. Venardhi

    Venardhi Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I don't see why Capaldi can't be 13, without making Hurt 9 and bumping up 9-through-11.