Relativity makes no sense

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Voyager' started by Isolinear, Mar 26, 2014.

  1. Isolinear

    Isolinear Commander Red Shirt

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    I watched Relativity again yesterday, and I realized the plot makes no sense whatsoever.

    SPOILERS ahead:
    ....
    ....
    ....

    There are 4 timeframes in the episode:
    1. Voyager in drydock
    2. Kazon attack
    3. Present
    4. The Future.

    The episode starts in drydock with Seven trying to locate the Weapon. She finds it, but it is "out of phase" because it is the wrong timeframe. She communicates the location (Deck 4, Section 39) to Braxton. Then she's killed during transport to the Future. I will call her Seven-1.

    Braxton has to recruit her again from the Present. We see Seven in the hour leading up to Voyager's destruction. There are temporal distortions. Seven and B'Elanna locate the weapon. Some time after that, Seven is beamed to the Future. I will call her Seven-2.

    NOW WAIT A MINUTE!!!!! If Present-Seven already knows the location of the weapon, why did the previous Seven (Seven-1) try to locate it in the first place?
    And when Braxton briefs Seven-2 on the weapon, why doesn't she say: "Hey wait, I saw that thing with B'Elanna just minutes ago!" ????

    Braxton informs Seven-2 that the weapon was planted in timeframe 2, a Kazon attack. Then she's transported to that timeframe and confirms "There's no sign of the weapon".

    NOW WAIT A MINUTE!!!!!! If the weapon is not there because it hasn't been planted yet, then why WAS it there in timeframe-1 (Drydock). If it is visible, but out of phase, in timeframe-1 and 3, why is it suddenly NOT visible in timeframe-2?!? Shouldn't it be there as well, but out of phase until planted?

    Now Janeway and Seven-2 interrupt Braxton-2 while he's planting the weapon. He escapes with the weapon to timeframe-1 and later to timeframe-3, where Seven-3 (timeframe-3 Seven) finally takes the weapon from Braxton-2. Before he had the chance to plant it!!!! Janeway is recruited to the Future...

    NOW WAIT A MINUTE!!!!! The weapon was NOT planted in the Kazon attack because Janeway and Seven-2 just prevented that. Seven-3 has the weapon and Braxton-2 is in custody in the future.
    THEN WHY is Janeway sent back to trimeframe-2 to take the weapon from him AGAIN???? Isn't that unnecessary at that point?

    I won't start about the "reintegration" of the multiple Sevens. What does that even mean?!?
    This episode makes no sense! To quote a certain blonde from Galaxy Quest: "This episode was badly written!!!!" :devil:
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2014
  2. JirinPanthosa

    JirinPanthosa Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I am SHOCKED, SHOCKED there is discontinuity in a time travel episode!
     
  3. Melakon

    Melakon Admiral Admiral

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    I think this is the one Voyager episode I still haven't seen. Some day...
     
  4. Seven of Five

    Seven of Five Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I used to hate this episode when I first saw it, but years later I've grown a heavy appreciation for it. I agree that it makes no sense, but they seem to know it, so that's half the fun.

    Endgame bugged me more with a lack of Temporal Policing. Are Starfleet less bothered with timeline hijinks if it helps them into a more powerful position?
     
  5. King Daniel Beyond

    King Daniel Beyond Admiral Admiral

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    I'd have to rewatch it to make any sense of what Isolinear is talking about, but I'd like to say I have very fond memories of this episode. Even if it made questionable sense.

    I do know that "re-integrating" is using the transporter to merge temporal duplicates back into a single being - and that in Braxton's case it's extremely unethical of them to merge the sane version of him in the present with a nutty version from the future, especially since the actions taken in the present have prevented the present version from ever becoming that future self and committing the crime.

    I have a headache...
     
  6. JarodRussell

    JarodRussell Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Any sort of system in which you get punished for crimes you haven't even committed yet, is terror.
     
  7. MacLeod

    MacLeod Admiral Admiral

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    Best not to over think time travel stories.
     
  8. Melakon

    Melakon Admiral Admiral

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    That's the whole premise of Minority Report.
     
  9. Isolinear

    Isolinear Commander Red Shirt

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    Yeah, it's a bit wordy for people who haven't seen the episode in a while. Summary:

    1. Seven is trying to find a weapon, when she already knows where the thing is.
    2. The weapon is missing in one timeframe, after the story told us the weapon is visible in ALL timeframes.
    3. Janeway is sent on a mission to prevent something that has already been prevented.


    Interesting note for Point 2. There was a similar mistake in "All Good Things...". In that episode they had that anomaly that grew bigger the further it got back in time. Problem was: it was missing in a timeframe when it logically should have been there already. (the future)
     
  10. JirinPanthosa

    JirinPanthosa Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I think I know why the future turns a blind eye to episodes like Timeless and Endgame.

    You see, these people on the Relativity are huge fantasy geeks, they love fiction stemming from the simpler days of the 24th century when technology had not yet run amok. So they all have participated in holo-fiction involving the most famous crews from that time period. If they let Voyager get destroyed, then it means their favorite holo-novel had never been written, and they will never get to write elaborate romance scenarios around their favorite characters ever again.

    Letting Voyager get destroyed would ruin their holo-fanfic.
     
  11. E-DUB

    E-DUB Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    One of the DTI novels explains that reintegration was pioneered by Spock during the trip to the 20th century when he did it with Capt. Christopher and the security guard.
     
  12. LMFAOschwarz

    LMFAOschwarz Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I was only a sporadic Voyager viewer in its first run, and this just happens to be one of the ones I saw. The only thing I really remember noticing is just how great Seven/Ryan looked in a Starfleet uniform!
     
  13. hux

    hux Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Timey whimey stuff....always a laugh

    I think i can (attempt) to answer query 2. The time weapon can be seen in all timeframes (cos it's a time weapon) but it only physically exists in one timeframe so when Seven says she can't see it, she simply means it isn't physically there just like in timeframe 1 (but she can see it in terms of it's timey whimey presence in that particular location)
     
  14. Isolinear

    Isolinear Commander Red Shirt

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    Nope. That interpretation could have worked, but unfortunately there's a greenish "seven-vision" shot that shows no sign of the weapon where there was one in a similar shot in timeframe-1.
     
  15. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    The many Braxtons were going to be integrated, so by the time the innocent one faced trial, if he faced trial, he would have been a docile component of a Tuivix composite constructed from at least three Braxtons, a majority of which were culpable for the crimes "they" were accused of.
     
  16. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    So we say. But by the 29th century, there's likely to be an entirely new system of law, which would be incomprehensible to us today. Time travel is an integral part of 29th century life, so there is going to be a wholesale reinvention of law and police procedure.

    We're interpreting their society with our biases. We assume that it's obviously impossible to be arrested for crimes we have yet to commit. That's true for US, but not necessarily for the 29th century. I'm not saying their system is automatically right, just that we might not have as much of a right to judge them as we think.
     
  17. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Prostitution.

    In America, in every state except Hawaii, a John is prosecuted for having sex with women without having sex with women, just because it all but seems incredibly likely that they would have had sex with those police officers pretending to be sex workers if they hadn't been stopped prematurely.

    Doesn't it seem unfair that attempted murders are charged with less time than actual murders just because they're incompetent... They are being rewarded for incompetence!

    Is that how the real world works?
     
  18. LMFAOschwarz

    LMFAOschwarz Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Isn't that what they say about suicide, that the legal penalty for failure is greater than the legal price for success?
     
  19. tomalak301

    tomalak301 Admiral Premium Member

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    I haven't seen this episode in a while but I remember really liking Seven in uniform. I think that was the only time we saw her in uniform, which was unfortunate.
     
  20. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    She suited up again in that one where she was having sex with holoChakotay.

    :)