Read & Reread "Greater Than The Sum"- My Opinion (Spoilers)

Discussion in 'Trek Literature' started by Dayton3, Aug 20, 2008.

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  1. Dayton3

    Dayton3 Admiral

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    Arena
    The Doomsday Machine
    Elaan of Troyius
    Balance of Terror
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    Errand of Mercy
    The Ultimate Computer
    Obsession
    The Deadly Years
    The Corbomite Manuever

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    I hope that clears some things up.
     
  2. Rosalind

    Rosalind TrekLit's Dr Rose Mod Admiral

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    :p why should I spend the extra $2 on a mmpb when I know the probability of me reading it within two months is zero?

    well, like I said before, just press multi-quote everytime you want to reply, then press quote on the last post, and delete (or not) that last bit of quote.


    :: kick the thread back on topic ::
     
  3. William Leisner

    William Leisner Scribbler Rear Admiral

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    ^^That's ten out of 79 TOS episodes, and 13 out of 178 TNG episodes. That's still not enjoying Trek "for the most part".

    What I can glean from this list is you like standoffs, and cat-and-mouse strategy stories. And there's nothing wrong with that. But that's such a small and minor element in the huge tapestry that is Star Trek. Trek is also "The City on the Edge of Forever" and "The Trouble with Tribbles" and "The Measure of a Man" and "The Outcast" and "A Fistful of Datas" and "The Visitor" and "The Siege of AR-558" and "Bride of Chaotica" and on and on and on. If you only enjoy Trek for one thing, then you're just not getting it.
     
  4. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    Or, more simply, press Multi Quote on every post you want to quote, then press the Post Reply button beneath the last post on the left side of the screen. It took me a few weeks after the switch to vBulletin to realize that button was there.
     
  5. RandyS

    RandyS Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Me too. But I'll get drunk for a month.

    By the way, I really liked T'Ryssa alot, just in case that wasn't clear.

    Oh, the book was quite good too. I guess I should say that.
     
  6. Rosalind

    Rosalind TrekLit's Dr Rose Mod Admiral

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    and I didn't even notice it's there. :o

    very convenient! :bolian:
     
  7. Therin of Andor

    Therin of Andor Admiral Admiral

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    Nope. Multi-quote still refuses to work for my iMac (running 10.2.8 and Firefox).

    I have to upgrade again.
     
  8. LightningStorm

    LightningStorm The Borg King Commodore

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    No, Star Trek is not for you. While I agree that Star Trek is different to different people, it's core values of what makes Star Trek what it is, is not different. And that is diversity and peaceful exploration. Sure battles and war all come up at some point, but those are effects of living in a diverse universe and having different ideas about how to live (and die) in it.

    And to follow on to what William Leisner said: If you can make a list of Star Trek episodes you liked and that list is smaller (and yours is by quite a lot) than the list of episodes you didn't like, then you did NOT enjoy Star Trek for the most part. Just because a series may have a few episodes you really liked, if the vast majority of them you didn't, how can you reasonably say you mostly enjoyed it? Nevermind the fact that we are talking about the novels not the episodes. It really sounds like Star Trek lit is most certainly not for you.
     
  9. Hardin

    Hardin Captain Captain

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    well, I'm late to the party (er...) but I've finished this book this morning and I wanted to say how much I liked it, especially after the big disappointment that Before Dishonor was for me. I closed the book feeling like Post Nemesis TNG was back on track, at least as far as my personal tastes go.

    I did groan a little that the next book(s) are apparently going to have, once again, the Borg, but I trust the writers to make it interesting, since it was this time around.

    I also derived a twisted, sick but very sweet pleasure from the circumustances of the death of Leybenzon who I despised even before the mutiny thing. I'm glad he's dead because hopefully we won't see him again (never quite sure with Trek) and I'm glad he had his pigheaded attitude blown up in his face in the worst way. I went from "Oh, please, no, not this guy again, he left the ship, good riddance" to "yuppeeehhh!!!!" :evil: in those few pages. Did I mention how much I despised the character?

    Oh, I loved T'Rys. Childish, perky, smart, witty, not big on authority figures, thinks on her feet and she gets it done when it counts. It's a bit like early seasons Buffy in space or something... Please, please don't off her.
     
  10. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    Thanks!

    Nice analogy. A Whedon-type character is kind of what I was going for.
     
  11. captcalhoun

    captcalhoun Admiral Admiral

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    were Leybonzon and T'lana deliberately introduced to then be removed? or is this actually response to fan dislike of the characters?
     
  12. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    The decision was made before Q&A and Before Dishonor were even published. It was decided that their actions in BD made it unfeasible for them to continue as members of Picard's crew. It wasn't planned that way, because -- as stated earlier -- the authors get to come up with their own storylines rather than following someone else's plan. Peter David chose to take them in a certain direction that required changing the original plans for the characters. Which I'm sure has happened before with other characters in other books. Even within an author's own works. When I created three alien characters for Titan, it was my intent for them all to stay with the crew indefinitely, but when I wrote Orion's Hounds, I decided that the story called for one of them to leave the crew. And one of them, conversely, has been made into a much more prominent character by my successors than I expected. We can't always predict where a story will take us.
     
  13. Quimby

    Quimby Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    Just finished GttS myself.

    I am still not sold on T'Ryssa. I didn't hate her as others seemed to but she stradled that sit-com'y line where everything out of her mouth is just oh so clever that can be annoying at times. It's a charcateristic shared by everyone in New Frontier that can make reaidng that series tedious at times, but she just stradled the line, not cross it and I did appreciate her growth in the end (for what it's worth I understood she was just buttering up her superior in the opening scene. That people took "Commander of my heart" seriously makes me never want to see a love poem from some people here :-)

    It seemed that the book was stuck having to clean up the mess created by Before Dishonor and that seeemd to reign it in somewhat. But even still, Christopher's books are very good at presenting big sci-fi ideas and even with the limitations, this one delivered with the idea of an interstellar life form. I loved it.

    I felt the storyline between Bev and Picard was very well done and realistically portrayed given their cicumstances. I was surprised at the negative reation to it I have seen elsewhere in this thread. I wonder if perhaps the storyline was too--and no disrespect intendeed to anyone here--"adult" for the tastes of some readers.

    Regarding the Borg. I must admit it was a drag to see them yet again but obviously there was no choice given the end of Before Dishonor. At least something new was done with them here unlike Resistance which I found to be very disappointing. I am crossing my fingers that Destiny will be the Borg's big send off...Bye Bye Borg!
     
  14. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    You know, not necessarily. I could probably have gotten away with making the hunt for the Einstein a more minor background element in the book. Heck, maybe I could've even gotten away with having it fall afoul of some accident and get blown up in the prologue and then go on with telling a totally different story. (Maybe. That's probably an exaggeration.) But I decided I'd rather tackle the Borg-related questions lingering from the previous books and shows and try to synthesize a cohesive big picture out of them.
     
  15. Therin of Andor

    Therin of Andor Admiral Admiral

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    And you did a great job of it!
     
  16. OptimusPete

    OptimusPete Captain Captain

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    I'm about half way through the book and although I'm enjoying it I do find the character of T'rysa very grating. I found the way she got onto the ship didn't speak very highly of starfleets selection process for choosing memebers of its supposedly elite crew. How pissed off would you have been if you were one of the highly qualified candidates for the position T'rysa eventually got? You bust your hump for years to be the best in your field and keep your nose clean but some immature screw up gets the job just cos Picard feels sorry for her? Harsh!

    As for the comparisions to Barclay I think he worked as a screw up character because we didn't actually ever see that much of him he just popped up here and there making it easier for the folks who didn't like him to tolerate him.

    All in all so far, I'm enjoying the story and finding it quite accessable even though its my first TNG relaunch book. I'd probably give it three and a half out of five so far cos although I dislike T'rysa I do like the way the TNG originals are being written, they all seem very much in character, I especilly like the little exchange between Worf and Geordi after the conference when Worf comments on the lack of men left on the bridge crew :techman:
     
  17. JD

    JD Admiral Admiral

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    I just finished this last night, and I loved it, it was easily one of the very best Borg stories I've ever read or watched.
    I know a lot of people have been complaining about T'Ryssa, but I actually really liked her. I'll admit it did take a couple of chapters for me to warm up to her, but once I did she became one of my favorite parts of the book. Up thread someone compared her to a Joss Whedon character, and I think that is actually pretty accurate and it's also one of the reason why I liked her so much.

    I also really liked the other new characters, they all seem to be very interesting. Especially Choudhury, she is definitely a very different kind of security chief that we are used to. I really think it was kind of fun the way you guys went from Leybenzon, who only cared about fighting, to Choudhury, who cries after she has to take part in a battle. Was this done on purpose? The conversation between her and Worf was really interesting, I really liked the way that you had Worf describe Klingon honor. Elfiki seemed pretty cool too, although she did seem to be the least developed of the new characters. I know that she was created by David Mack for Destiny, so I'm really hoping that we get more development of her there.

    The other main characters were also all very well written. I'm really happy to see that Picard and Crusher are married, I've been waiting for this since All Good Things (yes, I know that was an alternate future that isn't going to happen). The whole baby thing was actually very well handled in my opinion, and I really liked the way that you tied Picard's Kamin (Kamen?) life into that who plotline. I've always thought that those events had to have had a big impact on Picard, and I'm really glad to see that those events and there impact are finally being acknowledged. I was really glad to see you actually give Geordi some screen time too, because I think he's always been a fairly underused character since the series ended. I just wish that you could have gotten him and Dina together, because they seemed to hit it off pretty well in their scene together and Geordi's always been rather unlucky when it comes to women.

    Now as for the Borg, I really liked the way that you were able to explain away a lot of the inconsistencies and tie up the loose ends. I'm so glad that you finally explained why some of the Borg seemed to have never been anything but Borg, because that's been something that's always bugged me. The inclusion of a character from the Unimatrix Zero rebellion also made me really happy, because that is something I've been wanting to see more of since they first introduced them in the Voyager 2 parter. I was also really glad to see that Hugh was brought back, although I do wish he could have survived the story. Now don't get me wrong, I'm glad that he got to go the way he did, because I really think that that was a very appropriate close to his story. I just wish he could have survived so that there was a possibilty that he could pop back up, because I've always thought he was a interesting character.
    The new alien that you created for the story was really cool and unique. I thought it was really cool that it was kind of a counterpoint to the Borg in a way.
    The epilouge was a really great set for Destiny, IMO. Given his attitude I think the way that Leybezon died was very approprite, I just wish he didn't give the Borg their new weapon in the process. I especially liked the Borg's message, that had to be one of the scariest things I've read in a Trek book.
    Final score 9.5/10
    Now we just need Destiny. Is it September yet???
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2008
  18. Christopher

    Christopher Writer Admiral

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    It wasn't just because he felt sorry for her. It was because, as she rightly pointed out, she was the only person available in all of Starfleet who'd actually been to the cluster and contacted the entity. It was reasonable to assume that she could thus prove essential to the success of the mission, and indeed she did.

    Also, perhaps, because he sensed she deserved an opportunity to prove herself. The people who've busted their humps for years and kept their noses clean don't need any help; they can handle themselves. But someone who has untapped potential and a genuine willingness to start developing it is someone who deserves to be given the opportunity. I've always felt it's backwards the way our schools and other institutions tend to encourage and support those who are already doing well more than those who could improve if given extra encouragement and support.

    We saw a great deal of Barclay in his introductory episode and in later focus episodes, and little or none of him the rest of the time. Trys is no different -- naturally her debut story needed to establish her, but she won't be featured equally in every story to follow, any more than any other character.


    Glad you liked that bit. It really felt like a true Worf moment when it came to me.

    Not exactly. I have felt for a while that too many Starfleet security characters fall into the tough guy/warrior category, and I've always preferred to play against that, something I initially did when I created Rennan Konya for SCE. (It was my hope that he would become a foil and a balance for the more aggressive Corsi, but it didn't work out that way.)

    And with Choudhury, Dave had already established the character name, and I liked the idea of giving her an Indian cultural identity; too many "ethnic" human characters in Trek are still culturally American, when you get right down to it. So I wanted her to be a Hindu, and nonviolence is a part of that cultural tradition. I liked the fact that it was a very different direction from Leybenzon, but that wasn't the sole, specific reason for her being the way she is.


    Well, that's the way they originally were in TNG. "Q Who" said they weren't interested in people, only their technology. BoBW introduced the idea of them assimilating people, but only with Picard, and it was treated as a special case. The drones in "I, Borg" and "Descent" were portrayed as having no identity but Borg. The idea of wholesale assimilation was a retcon introduced in First Contact and elaborated on in VGR. I'm glad I was able to find a way to reconcile TNG-style Borg with FC/VGR-style Borg.


    Glad to hear it. It was a hard balance to find -- making them sound angry and threatening without losing their Borg coldness and contempt.
     
  19. JD

    JD Admiral Admiral

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    Yeah, I understand that. That was what I was what I was talking about when I said inconsitancies.
     
  20. ClayinCA

    ClayinCA Commodore Commodore

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    Oh, I have complete faith in you, David. :) It's more that with Borg-book after Borg-book, I just find myself thinking, "There better be a plan here...!"

    Actually, the monkeys did fine - it's just that they wrote it in the original Klingon... :klingon:

    Sing it, brutha! :techman:

    Not me - I thought she was great! My favourite new Trek character since Ensign Ro (with whom she shares certain similarities, now that I think of it).

    Me too - as I've said, it's my favourite post-Nemesis book, along with Q&A.

    This was one of the biggest criticisms I had with the Borg from First Contact onwards. Your reconciliation of the two forms of Borg actually helps me enjoy First Contact more, actually!
     
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