Re-writing the climax of STiD

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies: Kelvin Universe' started by WarpFactorZ, Sep 7, 2013.

  1. M'Sharak

    M'Sharak Definitely Herbert. Maybe. Moderator

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    Focusing on this bit, just for a moment: Marcus... thought Khan was different from the current people in Starfleet. Could that have been intentionally mirroring what Pike said in the 2009 movie's bar talk: that he thought Kirk possessed something which Starfleet had lost?
     
  2. Set Harth

    Set Harth Vice Admiral Admiral

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    A bit of an exaggeration, I think.
     
  3. OpenMaw

    OpenMaw Captain Captain

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    Maybe if taken as absolutely literal, but, the vengeance took out several rows of buildings. I can only guess just how many people were killed. Thousands.

    It's one of the few spots I wish they had paused for just a moment to give the crew a chance to react more. Sulu, especially. He's from Frisco!
     
  4. iguana_tonante

    iguana_tonante Admiral Admiral

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    No.
     
  5. SeerSGB

    SeerSGB Admiral Admiral

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    I got that vibe a little two. Kirk and Khan were both geniuses, exceptional people in an era of mediocrity, that needed a dose of humility.



    It'd be an interesting exercise but some important factors are missing:

    * We need to know the budget.
    * What the studio mandate/expectations are.
    * Director mandate/expectations.
    * Market we're aiming for.
    * Off limits characters and story points
    * Mandated characters and story points.
    * Deadline

    For it work, we need the same restrictions in play as he had to deal with.

    Then it'd be fun (and I mean that seriously, I'd find it fun) to rewrite STID and see if we could come up with something as good or better.
     
  6. Kelthaz

    Kelthaz Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    The physics? No. But a 1 on 1 ship battle right on Earth's doorstep without any intervention from StarFleet is a pretty big plothole. Especially after the entire movie is spent telling us how Earth is gearing up for war with the Klingons and that should include some defense for your home planet.

    Movies should make sense and character actions should be believable.
     
  7. SeerSGB

    SeerSGB Admiral Admiral

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    It's a bit of a Trek staple.

    * TMP, Enterprise only ship in range of an attacker that's a couple days from Earth.

    * TSFS, Kirk steals the Enterprise and Excelsior is the only ship that tries to run her down. No system patrol ships? No other starships hanging around that could have gave chase. It was pretty clear where Kirk was going, there should have been a half dozen ships dropping out of warp behind him. Hell, the amount of time it took them to hack the spacedoors, there should have been a couple ships waiting.

    * GEN, Enterprise B is the only ship in range of the ships in distress.
     
  8. OpenMaw

    OpenMaw Captain Captain

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    Indeed, and it's not like we didn't see other ships at Starbase One when Enterprise warped off to Kronos.

    Though I think it would have been a really evil bit of dialogue had Marcus said something akin to Kirk being on his own. Implying that the rest of the fleet has been ordered to stay away from the fight or given some other distraction while Marcus runs clean up.
     
  9. Kelthaz

    Kelthaz Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Don't forget Nemesis. The Enterprise had support in that film, but the ships were too stupid to enter the nebula and help out in the fight. It counts.
     
  10. Flying Spaghetti Monster

    Flying Spaghetti Monster Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Spacious argument.
    But Michael Arndt, writer of episode 7, gave a lecture to film students as to why Episode 4 still resonates so strongly after all those years, and that is partly due to all the narratives climaxing and resolving simultaneously. There is nothing wrong with my thoughts that some old fashion actual writing would have saved this film. As opposed to giving in to the short attention spans of today's young audiences.
     
  11. ichab

    ichab Commodore Commodore

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    That would work too. It's just so hard NOT to make the Moltalban comparison and Khan's back story clearly predates the time line change. So he should always be someone that's muscular and with an ethnic accent.
     
  12. SeerSGB

    SeerSGB Admiral Admiral

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    True. I was only counting stories where the Enterprise was at Earth.

    * TWOK, Enterprise is the only ship in the quadrant. A major scientific project that could tip the balance of power in the Federation's favor and no one thought to put a couple of ships on patrol?

    * TSFS, why no patrol ships in the Genesis space? If nothing else, an armed escort with the Grissom. Shit, a regular starship even that could defend itself.

    * TFF, No one thought to put Kirk on a ship that wasn't falling apart and let him use it to go to Nimbus III?

    * TUC, The starships that ferried the Federation, Romulan, and Klingon delegates to the conference are no where to be seen. Hell, Chang could have called them up and said Kirk has escaped and coming to attack the conference and had him intercepted long before he got there; Enterprise would be a smoking wreck and any threat to Chang's plan would be gone.
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2013
  13. Happy Xmas (War Is Over)

    Happy Xmas (War Is Over) Fleet Admiral Premium Member

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    Cumberbatch beefed up and has an ethnic accent, so he fits the bill.
     
  14. JarodRussell

    JarodRussell Vice Admiral Admiral

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    On 9/11, they could have potentially killed 40,000 people in just two sky scrapers. They didn't because they attacked too early.
     
  15. The Naughty List

    The Naughty List Working the Pole Moderator

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    You hold all the other Trek films, TV shows, books, etc. that employ the same dramatic tactic (which is all that is) to the same high standard, right? Because, if so, that's a lot of Trek history --including some great films, episodes, and novels-- that you've just labeled as having an unrecoverable flaw.

    I know the usual suspects are now going to whine about how they should be able to complain about a flaw in STiD without having to compare it to examples of the same flaws in prior Trek and blah blah blah, but I don't care.
     
  16. iguana_tonante

    iguana_tonante Admiral Admiral

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    If it's so spacious, does it mean there is room for different opinions?
     
  17. austen_pierce

    austen_pierce Captain Captain

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    "You keep using that word. I don't it means what you think it means." - Inigo Montoya

    However... I did also find it wierd that Enterprise 'fell' to Earth THROUGH the debris field. Somewhat of a head-scratcher.

    I use my wife as a litmus test. If she see's a plot hole, it's noticeable enough for general audiences. She noticed this.
     
  18. Kemaiku

    Kemaiku Admiral Admiral

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    1. Vengeance jamming all comm channels to Earth, but the one to New Vulcan is directed away from Earth so gets through, Marcus/Khan deem it not worthy of attention.

    2. Marcus is the head of Starfleet, and transmitted a stand-down signal to Starbase 1 and Luna Colony to ensure no one goes near them.

    3. Marcus/Khan transmit a harzard warning hail that orders every available ship out of the hazard area immediately, scans from said ships show a debris field, they comply.

    4. All warp signatures and hull profiles in the area are Starfleet, the Admirals flagship and Starfleets flagship, no one is sure what to do and await orders.

    5. Marcus, before leaving the Sol system, ordered the fleet to a point nearer Klingon space. This when added to launching Vengeance, means Starfleet presumes a Klingon attack and one lightyears off, caught very off guard when both return to Sol.

    6. It's a fucking movie and this has happened 100 times before now with no one making this much fuss.
     
  19. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

    I mentioned Spock not contacting Earth when watching with my wife the other night and she made a very good point that I hadn't thought of: Spock simply didn't know who he could trust on Earth. Sending a distress call could've simply brought more ships loyal to Marcus to finish the job.

    How dare you use past Trek's in your argument that this movie isn't an abomination against both Man and God!!!
     
  20. Kemaiku

    Kemaiku Admiral Admiral

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    Then my work here is done. ;)