RDM interview about the finale here...

Discussion in 'Battlestar Galactica & Caprica' started by Admiral Buzzkill, Mar 21, 2009.

  1. V

    V Commodore Commodore

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    I thought that scene was dumb; just as a general metaphor for "I can't keep Starbuck" with...a bird. Look its not that it didn't make sense, its that it was corny.

    Okay, its what we feared most: a Sopranos-ending for Starbuck; "isn't it great if we leave it more mysterious?" NOOOOOOOOOOOO. Yikes.

    ugh

    Really, it doesn't make sense that EVERYTHING Baltar was through, being President, etc. was directed to THIS moment, though of course, they NEVER planned out the series.

    Shut up. Just...shut up. We expected more than that...we were *led to believe* there would be more than that. I *don't* believe in "higher powers" and wanted the hardcore military scifi show there used to be, like a murder mystery novel, it can't end with "maybe an angel killed that guy"....

    Moore confirms what I already assumed but he was afraid wasn't clear: the Colony got knocked out of orbit by the nukes and will be swallowed by the black hole.

    I was honestly confused by that and I'm happy he answered it:

    No, the Cylons didnt' get resurrection technology back, Tyrol interrupted the download by stopping to kill Tory. Then the Colony got hit with nukes and is heading towards a black hole. Originally, they were going to be on the upper level of CIC (with Anders I guess) and Tigh would fling Cavil over a railing. Instead, Dead Stockwell got the idea that Cavil is thinking "we don't have resurrection technology, we don't have Hera, and the Cylon Homeworld is about to get sucked into a black hole. We're doomed. That's it, I give up" and shoots himself.

    What I don't understand is, why don't they just grow more Cylons in vats, like they've BEEN doing? maybe the "humanoid Cylon factories" were all on the Resurrection Hub/Cylon Homeworld?

    Oh, and both McDonnell and Olmos' final scenes for their characters, were also the last ones they shot.

    Ultimately, his explanation of "The Music" was the same as they told us TWO YEARS AGO at the end of season 3 : "it's the universal collective unconscious filtering down to us, just as they wear western clothing, speak English, and have many other culturally similar traits to us"....okay the English-speaking can be explained by "Indo-European mutated from English, then back into English" but really all of the other cultural-specific stuff.

    "This culture is the one that gave birth to ours… [All the slang and cultural stuff,] we get that from them, not the other way around. "


    Well, its finally over. I hope people remember it more for the groundbreaking seasons one and two, than the later spiritual stuff when they were just making it up as they went along.
     
  2. scotthm

    scotthm Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I didn't know what to expect regarding Kara and her nature, because I wasn't 'led to believe' that anything in particular would be explained. I'm actually glad it was left somewhat ambiguous, because I don't think there could have been an explanation that would have been satisfying.

    I believe the real reason for most of the dissatisfaction with this episode is that it presumes that some 'higher power' exists and can manipulate the universe, and some people just can't handle that concept, even in a work of fiction.

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  3. Gregsmack

    Gregsmack Captain Captain

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    V, you're very dismissive. How do you enjoy anything?
     
  4. Koinek

    Koinek Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Unless I'm very mistaken, you aren't a well paid writer/producer for a popular TV show and I don't expect you to be able to come up with a better explanation. RDM however led me to believe he could do better. Unfortunately, I was very mistaken. Won't happen again.

    Also, if we could independently conceive every plot twist, things would be very boring. These shows are interesting precisely because their authors can create a story that we wouldn't normally come up with ourselves, thus eliciting surprise.

    If you've been reading the critiques on this site and other places on the net, you'd realize that it's less about the usage of god and more about how it was presented as a last minute catch-all.
     
  5. John Larocque

    John Larocque Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

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    I would say that started roughly in the middle of the second season after "Home".

    I was also disappointed that they took the ambiguity out of the spiritual side of the equation and made it clear that "gods" were manipulating, events after all. It seems to me - and this is something that many critics (and TOS fans) made - that sometimes Ron hit on original series ideas that he first originally discarded (such as 12 Colonies instead of Planet Kobol in the miniseries script) and then later embraced. "Gods" or angels were manipulating the Colonials in 1978, and they were manipulating them in 2009.

    In a weird way, that was also my reaction when they sent thousands of years of technology flying into the sun and went native on Earth II. In the backstory of the original series (yes, we're going back to 1978), after the twelve tribes left Kobol, the Colonials left their original planet in such bad shape that the turned on their technology on their new homeworlds, and it took them hundreds of years to become a spaceworthy race again. All of this happened before, all of this will happen again.

    Salon magazine described the finale as the anti-Sopranos, because they did resolve, as best they could, so many of the storylines. "Whoah, Tyrol has avenged the death of his wife! About time..."

    Oh "V", you should be aware that MrsRon's new pinned OK at thread at Skiffy mentions you in the very first post of one of the many people she has treasured at Skiffy. Take a bow.
     
  6. Admiral Buzzkill

    Admiral Buzzkill Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    The end of the series, BTW, is virtually identical conceptually to that of James Blish's novel "And All The Stars A Stage." That kind of synchronicity is pretty common in science fiction.
     
  7. David cgc

    David cgc Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Sometimes that's just how writing works. I know a few examples of stories that began with simple images or motifs that the author couldn't get out of their head. "The Terminator" is the first example I can think of, where James Cameron developed the movie's plot out of the initial image of a metal skeleton emerging out of a blazing fire. Was it similarly stupid for Cameron to wedge a metal skeleton into a movie without any idea of what it was or why it was there?
     
  8. scotthm

    scotthm Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Hmmm.... He didn't lead me to believe so. In fact, I was pleasantly surprised at how well the finale turned out.

    They were interesting for a variety of reasons, surprise being only one of them.

    I sort of feel sorry for the folks who feel that they needed everything spelled out for them. I've never had much problem using my own imagination, so I can't really empathize.

    As I've said elsewhere, it wasn't last minute. Something like this has been hinted at for a long time.

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  9. Admiral Buzzkill

    Admiral Buzzkill Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Nope. That's just being a writer; sometimes it works out brilliantly and sometimes it's like "huh?"

    You either get that or you don't.
     
  10. Sharr Khan

    Sharr Khan Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Indeed there's no adequate manner to convey how these things are born. Writing is not about "plans" its about inspirations.

    In the hours since the finale I've already filled in the blanks in my own head and am pleased enough with what I grokked.

    Sharr
     
  11. Temis the Vorta

    Temis the Vorta Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I fully expected them to be frakkin' with us. Daybreak of TOTAL GALACTIC ANNIHILATION YARGH! :rommie:

    It was only when they started to get too literal that it went sour for me. Mitochondrial DNA, robot killers in your future. Blergh. That really convinced me that stuff like Kara's abrupt departure was the right way to go, if I wasn't convinced before.
     
  12. Admiral Buzzkill

    Admiral Buzzkill Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    "Mitochondrial Eve" was downright brilliant. It establishes the relationship of these people in this story to us simply and without doubt; it's mythic.
     
  13. sidious618

    sidious618 Admiral Admiral

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    It made us part Cylon (a very small part I'll grant you) and that's nifty.
     
  14. RoJoHen

    RoJoHen Awesome Premium Member

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    I agree. I got nervous when I saw the New York cityscape and the "150,000 Years Later" thing, but I loved the way the scene played out.

    Not only was the Mitochondrial Eve thing neat, I thought it made the "Angels" even more interesting characters. You kind of have to wonder if there are more of them out there and what they do with themselves all day long.
     
  15. bigdaddy

    bigdaddy Vice Admiral Admiral

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    If Starbuck is an angel sent by god then someone here please explain to me what God is? Yeah you can't, so neither did Moore.
     
  16. Admiral Buzzkill

    Admiral Buzzkill Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    It also comes perilously close to incorporating actual science into the series. :lol:
     
  17. RoJoHen

    RoJoHen Awesome Premium Member

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    ^And if he tried, it probably would have been awful.
     
  18. scotthm

    scotthm Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Maybe Starbuck wasn't an angel; maybe she was a ghost.

    And what is 'god'? He's the one behind the scenes pulling the strings.

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  19. Kelso

    Kelso Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Baltar became the president to get the fleet to New Caprica... and Caprica Six gained influence among the Cylons in order to get them there. Re-watch S2, esp the back half of the season (the first half is devoted to Baltar saving Hera as an infant).

    The overall storyline of the series actually holds up quite well- up to and including the finale. People are just pissed right now because RDM didn't mold it to fit their expectations.
     
  20. MeanJoePhaser

    MeanJoePhaser Admiral

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    How about that Ghost Viper, too!
     

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