RDM interview about the finale here...

Discussion in 'Battlestar Galactica & Caprica' started by Admiral Buzzkill, Mar 21, 2009.

  1. Myasishchev

    Myasishchev Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Not in principle, no. I don't understand calculus, but this is not because calculus is fundamentally not understandable. Then again, I'm a positivist.

    And mysticism can work. Take for example the Invisibles or The Filth, two of Grant Morrison's best works--that stuff is a mess, but it works on a mystical level, and never really cops out with mysticism as a means to explain key plot points. Mysticism did not work in this instance, for precisely that reason, and others.
     
  2. Chess Piece Face

    Chess Piece Face Commodore Commodore

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    No. Not at all. I already KNOW she died and came back to fulfill her destiny and I knew it 2 seasons ago.

    Who brought her back? Why did this thing that brought her back choose her? What is the deal with the thing that brought her back? Where did it come from? What does it look like? Why is it interested in humanity?
     
  3. Myasishchev

    Myasishchev Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Why, V'Ger seeks its creator of course!

    Hilariously, the theories that the black hole was there to hit a huge Trekkian reset button on the whole proceeding look like good ideas in retrospect.
     
  4. Harvey

    Harvey Admiral Admiral

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    I wonder, how do the people complaining about the ambiguity of the ending feel about, say, Stanley Kubrick's film 2001: A Space Odyssey (1968)?
     
  5. Myasishchev

    Myasishchev Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    2001 was great. 2001 was set up from the beginning to do what it did.

    It made man, then it came back and judged him, and perhaps remade him into something even greater.

    It was ambiguous and mystical, but like I said, mysticism can work if set up properly.

    In fact, 2001 wasn't close to as off-the-wall as Daybreak--we had everything we needed in 2001 to explain what we knew happened and theorize about what we didn't. We had an instrumentality, in the form of the monolith; we had a recognizable goal, that being the directed evolution of humankind; and finally we had reasonable actions taken in pursuit of that goal, the visit of the monolith coinciding with humanity's development of AI and venturing to Jupiter.

    And we do learn in the later books that humanity is actually a failure in the monoliths' eyes... but 2001, despite its ambiguity, is clear and definite enough to allow the imagination to soar and to fall, thinking about the possibilities for Dave Bowman and for all humankind, from transcendence to extinction.

    We don't even know enough to profitably hypothesize what BSGod's goal is.

    2001 is also an exercise in pure style, to the extent that some criticize it for lacking substance. I think that's wrong in 2001's case... but right on the money for BSG.
     
  6. AvBaur

    AvBaur Captain Captain

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    Yup, same here.
     
  7. Admiral Buzzkill

    Admiral Buzzkill Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    On the contrary, if you're going to insist that anyone should have anticipated that as an alternative meaning for the "Daybreak" title you're being an willful obscurantist. :lol:
     
  8. Harvey

    Harvey Admiral Admiral

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    The novels are irrelevant. I'm talking purely about Kubrick's cinematic expression.

    I vehemently disagree. "God," as expressed by the "Angels" wants to end the cycle of violence. And that was expressed with far less ambiguity than, say, Bowman's transformation at the end of 2001 (excluding the heaps of exposition about it in the novel, which is a great, but nearly entirely separate, work in another medium).
     
  9. Admiral Buzzkill

    Admiral Buzzkill Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Not necessarily. It - or its angels - are certainly interested in the question, though.
     
  10. Harvey

    Harvey Admiral Admiral

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    They're interested in its possibility. They're not deeply invested--Head Six's comments about mathematics doesn't suggest deep emotional investment. She'd like the cycle to end, and expects it eventually will, and even acts to move things in that direction. But at the end of the day, if it doesn't, they can always try again, and it is of no matter.
     
  11. scotthm

    scotthm Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    The ending strongly implied that it was someone called "god". Exactly how much theology do you think BSG should have gotten into?

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  12. Elemental

    Elemental Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    :wtf:
    That was one of the most nonsensical scenes in the show. Now it's all the more clear that it was something just thrown in to satisfy his ego. "It belongs in there," my ass.
     
  13. Admiral Buzzkill

    Admiral Buzzkill Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    He's a writer (and a very good one). You understand that? Okay, then about the "ego" part... :lol:

    Anyway, I thought the Kara/Lee flashback was the least useful and interesting of the flashbacks. We learned nothing important about them that we didn't know or at least suspect - that Kara is impulsive and makes bad choices, that there was probably always a strong attraction between then, etc. The other flashbacks for the other characters basically showed us how they set upon, or stumbled upon, the courses of action that brought them finally to the rag tag fleet.

    Now, the one thing that the Kara/Lee flashback did have in common with the others was that all of them suggest a kind of aimlessness and emptiness to their lives at that point. They numb it by drinking to excess, by casual sex, and so forth.
     
  14. Elemental

    Elemental Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Not sure exactly what you're getting at...
    The man invisioned someone chasing a bird in a house with a broom and was determined to get it into the episode despite knowing who it would be or having a reason for them for doing so. That's just stupid.

    ^Casual sex in BSG?! You've gotta be kidding me! :p
     
  15. nx1701g

    nx1701g Admiral Admiral

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  16. the_wildcard

    the_wildcard Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    NICE........very nice. It caught me off guard, that's for sure.
     
  17. Koinek

    Koinek Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Also, 2001 was 2 hours long. BSG spanned what?...60 or so hours?

    Intentional eh? Yea suuuuure buddy. Whatever you say..... :rolleyes:

    I can't believe that people actually trust any of this.

    "something". Precisely. How about actually giving us an impression of what god might be? Oh wait, that actually requires effort. This ending we got was a Deus Ex Machina. There was no plausible explanation left so RDM just threw his hands up and said "Ok god did it. Yup. That's it." Sloppy.
     
  18. Ayelbourne

    Ayelbourne Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    That Times Square scene reminded me of the awesome "Legacy of Kain" videogames.
    There was a quote in "Soulreaver 2" that sort of fits this as well:

    "Suppose, you threw a coin enough times. Suppose, one day, it lands on its edge."

    Ofcourse, in BSG there has been only one outcome all the times, not two. But the principle is the same.

    Whatever that entity that doesn't like being named God is, it is obviuosly interested in witnessing that "edge of the coin"-moment.
     
  19. Bishbot

    Bishbot Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Yeah, but, I've said it before and I'll say it again: Who cares whether it was planned? It was a brilliant dramatic moment, which was "pulled out of the deck" in just the right way. Personally I suspect that was, at least, planned - the writers would not just have forgotten Cally. But even if it wasn't planned, it worked, and we watched it, so where's the harm?
     
  20. scotthm

    scotthm Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I didn't say "something", I said "someone".

    And what if that someone is just God? Someone who we can't explain, and can't understand? Why would it have been better to reduce the behind-the-scenes orchestrator of all this to something that can be explained and understood in less than an episode? That would have been more disappointing than learning that Cavil destroyed the colonies in a childish fit to get back at his 'parents'.

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