Random Thoughts

Discussion in 'Voyager' started by dub, Sep 30, 2013.

  1. dub

    dub Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2012
    Location:
    Location? What is this?
    So Tuvok can speak mind to mind -- without a mind meld?? Did anyone else find this odd? Did Vulcans do this in previous Trek and I just don't remember? :vulcan:
     
  2. KaraBear

    KaraBear Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2013
    it wasn't Tuvok that was doing that, those aliens have telepathy. He wanted the thoughts from Tuvok so he was initiating the link between them, not Tuvok
     
  3. R. Star

    R. Star Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2012
    Location:
    Shangri-La
    That episode just always boggled me in the mere concept that a state could be so authoritarian to regulate what you can and can't think. To me that would be the ultimate tyranny to violate the sanctum of your private thoughts as a matter of routine.
     
  4. dub

    dub Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2012
    Location:
    Location? What is this?
    I was referring to the scene early in the episode when Nimira was talking to Tuvok mind to mind without a meld and without touching. What left me scratching my head was the brief mind to mind conversation when Nimira basically asked Tuvok why he insists on talking vocally instead of with his mind (again, no hands), and Tuvok acted like casually "mind talking" like that was old hat, he just didn't do it with limited humans. They were just walking along, not touching, just having a chat in their minds. So, basically that means Vulcans can talk to Betazoid-like aliens non-vocally and without a mind meld. I hadn't seen evidence of this in previous Trek...IIRC. Unless my mind is fuzzy on this, which is very possible. ;)
     
  5. KaraBear

    KaraBear Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2013
    yes, but in their society when one person's thoughts can so strongly influence someone else's action there has to be a regulation.
     
  6. dub

    dub Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2012
    Location:
    Location? What is this?
    I agreed with Seven when she was talking about how dumb it was for federation explorers to ignorantly beam down to a planet without having some of the crew review the government's laws for any potential red flags and discuss that with a contact on the surface before beaming down. Delegate someone to sort through it. Seems like a sane thing to do to me. There should be...some kind of...directive. :) But then that would remove an easy way to create TV drama. ;)
     
  7. R. Star

    R. Star Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2012
    Location:
    Shangri-La
    See, I don't buy that. If there's so undisciplined that someone else's stray thought of violence makes them do it, then make your laws require mental discipline training like say Vulcan meditation. Blaming the someone for their stray thought influencing someone else's crime is like the rapist saying that woman's loose outfit provoked him. In the end, people should be accountable for their actions no matter what is "influencing" them.

    Don't get me wrong, as the society is the crew screwed up like dub suggested. They should've gotten that little detail before they sent the violent Klingon down there and just let Tuvok and Vorik handle their negotiations.
     
  8. SignGuyHPW

    SignGuyHPW Lieutenant Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2013
    I think they had established that Vulcans were telepathic to a degree meaning that they held this ability. I always just presumed that a mind meld was a more intensive type of telepathy which made physical contact needed. Just a normal conversation with another species that had telepathic abilities was something they could do without as strong as a connection.
     
  9. dub

    dub Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2012
    Location:
    Location? What is this?
    When was this established? I either missed it or forgot about it because I was definitely scratching my head at these scenes. :confused:
     
  10. Melakon

    Melakon Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2012
    Location:
    Melakon's grave
    ^ In one of the TOS episodes (can't remember which, Devil in the Dark?) Spock says something like 'limited telepathic abilities are inherent in Vulcans'.

    It might also be from 'By Any Other Name' or 'A Taste of Armageddon', I was watching those 3 episodes several times last month while my computer was out of action.
     
  11. Anwar

    Anwar Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2006
    Location:
    Regina, SK, Canada
    Remember, Spock was able to mind-control a guy without even touching him. He just had to put his hands on the other side of the wall the guy was pressed against.

    There's more to Vulcan telepathy than physical contact.
     
  12. dub

    dub Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2012
    Location:
    Location? What is this?
    Guys, thank you so much. That answers it for me. I'll have to go back and re-watch those TOS episodes, Melakon. Thanks again! :techman:
     
  13. Melakon

    Melakon Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2012
    Location:
    Melakon's grave
    The line I was thinking of is from "A Taste of Armageddon". Anwar's description narrowed it down for me and I checked the transcripts to confirm.

    Also look for Robert Sampson as Anan's right hand man. Years later, he's Dean Halsey, one of Jeffrey Combs' test subjects in Re-Animator.
     
  14. lurok

    lurok Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2011
    Location:
    Lost in the EU expanse with a nice cup of tea
    The telepathic/empathetic abilities of Vulcans is...interesting to say the least. Doesn't Spock feel the deaths of that Vulcan Starfleet crew over great distances in (whatever that amoeba episode was...Immunity Syndrome?).

    Not to mention T'Pol and Trip's weird dream bonding.
     
  15. Lord Manitou

    Lord Manitou Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2010
    Location:
    Michigan
    If you read star trek novels you learn that Vulcans are so super in mentallity that it would just be natural to enforce his superiority to this race of telepaths.
     
  16. Timewalker

    Timewalker Cat-lovin', Star Trekkin' Time Lady Premium Member

    Joined:
    May 26, 2007
    Location:
    In many different universes, simultaneously.
    So you're suggesting that before anyone beams down, Janeway would ask, "Oh, by the way, are there any of your laws we should be especially careful of?"

    And the aliens, thinking over their laws, say, "No, nothing in particular."

    Whereupon Janeway says, "Great, see you soon then!"

    And nobody stops to consider that people who live with certain laws and social norms rarely stop to consider that everyone else may not live with those laws and norms... because it's just the normal thing to do/believe, right? It didn't occur to them to mention it, because they couldn't imagine anyone not intuitively understanding that it was the Right Way To Do Things.

    Rather like that TNG episode where Wesley accidentally smashed into the flower bed and was going to be executed - a law that the aliens hadn't bothered to mention... because didn't everyone know this?


    In addition to feeling the deaths of the Vulcans aboard the Intrepid, Spock was able to telepathically influence the woman in The Omega Glory without being in physical contact.
     
  17. 2takesfrakes

    2takesfrakes Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2013
    Location:
    Philadelphia, PA
    I really hated Torres' forehad. I hated it so badly ... It really should've been much more natural looking, especially at this stage, after so many years of Klingon makeup. Just a hateful look on an absolutely gorgeous actress ...
     
  18. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2000
    Location:
    In the lap of squalor I assure you.
    Spock could "sense" V'Ger entering the Galaxy.

    What the Vulcans have has often been referred to as "Touch-telepathy".

    Although you have to wonder if Spock had a telepathic boost to his abilities in Where no Man has Gone before without his eyes going silver and his brain going crazy, since in the beginning, the effect was tracking down persons with strong ESP ratings.
     
  19. LMFAOschwarz

    LMFAOschwarz Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2013
    This is true. I wasn't an enormous Voyager fan, but I must admit the actress who played her daughter in the final episode was an absolutely fabulous bit o' casting! :)
     
  20. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2000
    Location:
    In the lap of squalor I assure you.
    Sure, she's pretty, but I thought that casting the same actress that played Tom and Kes' daughter Liynnis from Before and After would have been in hilariously good taste.
     

Share This Page