Racist Vulcans

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Deep Space Nine' started by tafkats, Dec 24, 2011.

  1. tafkats

    tafkats Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I get that the Vulcans in Enterprise were suppose to be not quite as enlightened as they claimed, and certainly a less open and accepting people than they later became.

    But, in the 24th century, how is Captain Solok's attitude in "Take Me Out to the Holosuite" even remotely acceptable? Heck, even today, someone who wrote numerous papers about the inferiority of another race would be marginalized and seen as a joke. But Solok, who almost makes the xenophobic Cardassians look accepting, can do all the things Sisko described from their past and then, as a captain, bait a fellow officer with racist insults ... and it's accepted?

    You'd think Starfleet would have rules about that sort of thing.
     
  2. Nerys Ghemor

    Nerys Ghemor Vice Admiral Admiral

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    You would think, but I'm sure the Vulcans get a pass because people actually believe the line that they're always "oh-so-logical" and never say or do anything for emotional reasons like...dare I say...inferior races like the Cardassians. :cardie:

    This Cardassian is not amused. :rolleyes:

    But really, what Vulcan that we ever saw on any Trek was ever "open and accepting," except Spock in his later years?
     
  3. Deranged Nasat

    Deranged Nasat Vice Admiral Admiral

    I suppose it might be a case of "Can't Argue With Elves", as TV Tropes phrases it. That is, the elder elf-like race in the setting is often presented as blatantly convinced of its own superiority, yet when they behave in this manner, rather than the other races starting a bar fight over it, as would happen in real life, everyone just stands there and accepts it. They won't tolerate it from any other race, but you Can't Argue With Elves....
     
  4. Marie1

    Marie1 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Was it race that he had a problem with or the fact that other races were in his opinion didn`t control their emotions as Vulcans do? because l thought he just found (as most Vulcans would) that emotion made people a bit weaker when it came to needing to rely on them in stressful situations? And maybe he could`ve phrased that more diplomatically... or he was baiting...
     
  5. RoJoHen

    RoJoHen Awesome Premium Member

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    Vulcans are arrogant, not racist. I'm sure serving on a ship full of ONLY Vulcans would just make things worse.

    Frankly, I want to know who allowed a Starfleet ship to have an all-Vulcan crew. What possible purpose could that serve?
     
  6. RandyS

    RandyS Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Probably the same purpose as a ship with an all human crew, or an all Andorian crew (I don't remember of that ever came up). To make the crew more comfortable by being surrounded by their own kind? That's admittedly a very loose guess, but it would make sense.

    Another possibility would be sending a ship crewed a specific race is because certain races cannot handle certain sectors of space for whatever reason, similar to the way the Expanse had a negative effect on Vulcans in ENTERPRISE.
     
  7. JarodRussell

    JarodRussell Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I never liked it, and I hate it every time they refresh this stupid idea. The Vulcans, with all their history, and their IDIC philosophy, should know better than that. Racism is illogical. Above all, racism is the result of an irrational emotion: fear of the unknown. It makes absolutely no fucking sense that Vulcans are racists.
     
  8. Paradon

    Paradon Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Vulcans are arrogant. They think they know everything. Humans tends to think the same thing, but Vulcans are a race of geniuses. So maybe they are superior and they like show it. But I'm not sure if they are racist since they are superior to a lot of species.
     
  9. BennyRussel

    BennyRussel Commander Red Shirt

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    That ship in "Take Me Out to the Halosuite" did not have an all-Vulcan crew. It had an all-Vulcan senior staff.

    Still - it must have been a tough ship to serve on for a non-Vulcan.

    But I agree with the earlier poster. That Vulcan captaion was not "racist", he was either "chauvanist" or "jingoist".

    He believed Vulcans - because of their ability to suppress their emotions and survive on logic alone - would perform all things superior to other humanoids.

    Let's not forget the humans (and the Klingon and the Bajoran) on the DS9 Sr. staff all think they are superior to the Ferengis. The only humanoid among the Sr. staff on DS9 that doesn't feel that way and treats the Ferengis as equal is the Trill (Dax).
     
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2011
  10. Damask

    Damask Commander Red Shirt

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    Huh? The staff all treated Nog with respect and Rom too after a while? Or maybe it's a case of Nog and Rom being assimilated Federation values?

    Quark once helped someone nearly kill Dax!

    I dont see any of the senior staff thinking they're above all Ferengi. Might be one or two examples.
     
  11. JarodRussell

    JarodRussell Vice Admiral Admiral

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    The Vulcans in "Take Me Out to the Holosuite" were not racists. The Vulcan stated his physical superiority in a cold and logical manner, and what angered Sisko the most was the fact that he was right about it. The Vulcan was amused by Sisko's anger and competitiveness and studied him basically.

    It's arrogance, but not racism. Racism is based on fear, insecurity and similar emotions. If you state "you are black and I am white", "you sit in a wheelchair and I can walk", "you are blind and I can see", "you are a woman and I am a man", "you weigh 300 pounds and I weigh 100 pounds", "you scored 10 points and I scored 100 points", you are stating facts and nothing else.
     
  12. Photon

    Photon Commodore Commodore

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    With ya. I'm glad DS9 didn't include much: Vulcans and Borg.

    I hate both. Every time Nero destroys Vulcan, I LOL.
     
  13. JarodRussell

    JarodRussell Vice Admiral Admiral

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    That's because there is no such thing as different human races, and sexes aren't factually inferior.

    How many papers are out there about the differences (and perhaps inferiority) of monkeys compared to humans? Even if monkeys could talk and solve trigonomic equations, there would be hundreds or thousands of scientific articles about the differences to humans.



    Usually, a cold logical analysis evokes anger. Just try discussing with Christopher Bennett while having a different opinion than he has. He will academically beat you up and you will get so angry that he is right.
     
  14. Nerys Ghemor

    Nerys Ghemor Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I'm just amazed that so few Vulcans have come to the realization that being a dick is not logical. You tend to get fewer doors slammed in your face by emotional beings--who are not going to get rid of their emotions--when you learn to use social graces and have the tact not to have to win every battle or steamroll everyone all the time.
     
  15. You_Will_Fail

    You_Will_Fail Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I didn't like how they betrayed the Vulcans in "Take me Out to the Holosuite" to be honest. I would like to think someone like Tuvok was a much more common example of a Vulcan. I did like that we got to see Vulcans as Maquis though.
     
  16. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Solok displayed too much emotion to be considered a true Vulcan. Amusement and smugness are still emotions.

    Besides: It is illogical to assert racial superiority. True, some Vulcans may be stronger than some humans, but the reverse is also surely true. There are weak Vulcans, and strong humans. An entire species can't be said to have the same level of physical strength.

    I think it is entirely plausible to simply assume Solok is racist and dislikes humans. We've seen it before, of course. Not just in ENT, but also ST XI as well (the Vulcan Science Minister). Not all Vulcan characters in Trek have been so blatantly prejudiced, of course. Spock, T'Pol and Tuvok, for example, have all pointed out their differences with humans, but did not do so in such a flat-out bigoted fashion as Solok did.

    And yes, the T'Kumbra (Solok's ship) DID have a crew made up entirely of Vulcans. This was confirmed in dialogue in the episode, and of course, there was Solok's attitude. Would you expect Solok to WANT any human crewmembers to be serving under his command, after all? Or, conversely, would you (as a human) want to serve with somebody like him?
     
  17. Nerys Ghemor

    Nerys Ghemor Vice Admiral Admiral

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    T'Pol was pretty bigoted, as I recall. As far as Spock and Tuvok, I think they hid it a little better, but they were both still arrogant and abrasive, showing a lack of willingness to accommodate the social graces of others.

    At least...Spock was in his earlier years. I think it was pretty clear by the movie era that he'd mellowed. And in Trek XI, his behavior actually looked for the first time like a clear cross between human and Vulcan behavior, like he'd fully accepted both sides of him.
     
  18. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I never thought T'Pol was openly bigoted or racist. She expressed her reservations about humanity in a manner that really WAS logical. More so than Solok ever was, at any rate. Same goes for Spock and Tuvok.

    Solok, on the other hand, openly gloated about supposed Vulcan superiority.
     
  19. Coloratura

    Coloratura Snuggle Princess Premium Member

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    Agreed. T'Pol wasn't racist, she just made assumptions about humans that were later shown to be in error. She became a valued member of the crew, and trusted her human Captain implicitly.

    Solok was definitely racist. It was all over his face, in his body language, he seriously disliked and was disdainful of humans for emotional reasons.
     
  20. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    This reminds me of one of my favorite lines ever spoken in all of Trek: Spock's final "Live long and prosper" to the Vulcan Science Council in ST XI. I love how utterly PISSED he sounds. :techman: