Questions for Bring Back Janeway Panel

Discussion in 'Voyager' started by Kirsten Beyer, Jul 7, 2011.

  1. Chuckling

    Chuckling Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    You are right about that, I can write the characters anyway I want to. And no, licensed Trek does not have any obligation to keep or use any characters they no longer want to use, for whatever reason (many of which it may not be appropriate to share with the fans, possibly due to legal reasons). If CBS and/or Paramount Pictures decide they don't want a character continuing, they instruct the writers and the character is written out.

    Licensed Trek's job is to keep the franchise functioning and for that to occur, the reality is that it needs to be making money.

    Consider this. *Star Trek* is now a worldwide franchise. Wherever the Internet exists, there are *Star Trek* fans. Of the 6,775,235,700 people in the world, let's say that 1,000,000.00 of them are *Star Trek* fans. Suddenly the 1,000 fans who want Janeway back in the novels is less than 1%.

    Of the 850 fans you have listed in your Facebook group, authors would receive approximately $1 of what you pay at the register. An $850 check wouldn't go far these days! Even if MANY Janeway books were written and you bought them all, it still wouldn't come even close to covering the costs of producing them.

    Like it or not, these are the realities of the situation. The publishers and franchise have the statistics and Captain Janeway focused novels apparently aren't selling, for whatever reason! If the publishers are not making back (at least) the costs of producing the books, they won't continue publishing them.

    But you are not explaining to me why it is so important to you that you be able to buy the books with "Captain Janeway" in them.

    So, let me see if I can put this into words for you that may represent what you are saying. You want the professional writers creating stories that involve your favorite characters where you can relax and be entertained.

    Plus there is something about the *Captain Janeway* character that draws you to her and that you want to understand better and re-experience. In effect, the character has become like a friend and you don't want to lose that friendship.

    And that's great! Perfectly understandable! :bolian:

    But let's consider that even considering only the main characters of this 45 year old franchise, there are 46 central figures, all of whom have their dedicated fanbase and want them to receive due attention as well. And every single one of them have cash they want to spend also.

    Here's the thing! I don't think anybody is necessarily saying the character of *Captain Janeway* is gone for good! Might be, might not be. But for the time being, other characters are being given some time in the spotlight! :techman:

    In the meantime, you guys keep *Captain Janeway* alive and develop what you would like to see happen.

    Apart from TPTB being able to observe what you're doing and what you regard as important in the character and what attracts you, they will be able to work out what you'd possibly like included in the other character's development and storylines as well.

    This is a 45 year old franchise and it isn't dead yet! While there's life, there's hope! ;)

    How does what I said above sit with how you feel? Is that an apt description of why you want the character returned to the novels?


    Chuckling :lol:
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2011
  2. Kathryn J.

    Kathryn J. Lieutenant Junior Grade Red Shirt

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    To be choosen as a Trek writer is an honor from my point of view and the writers steadily should consider that. The honor is connected with a big responsibility: To keep the Star Trek universe worth and enjoyable "to live in" for every Trek fan and not exclusively for a part of them. Not every book can be liked by everybody the same as well, but also the recent books should cover the different desires of the readers.

    Gotham and Chuckling, if my -our- points would be so stupid like you want to show it in your special rude and un-businesslike way, you wouldn't consider it for being worth to waste any time on answering to my post. You couldn't make me happier!

    Thank you for at least checking out my website and raising the hits on it as well as for the advertisement to visit my site by mentioning it over and over, but I doubt, that you really read the whole post with all the connected links.
    Hopefully at least you didn't miss my Life Drawings and adult rated parts ;). (Not all is only Trek related.)

    You are afraid of us Janeway fans, 'cause we are more than you thought and this is good this way.

    Chuckling, I don't understand why we should share our fanfics on the Koffeeclub page :confused:. You might not know that this is a private website like mine is too. Only the owner(s) can post there.
    Fanfics are usually shared on special private writer’s boards as well as fanfiction.net and similar places and not send to any private person.
    I didn't know that you are such a fan of JC fan fiction that you would dig all over the Koffeeclub site to only find the stories! You surely agree that there are really good ones to find. If you look for more: I have a decent collection of links on my site ;) you happen to know now.

    You believe, my posts don't get any answers in Europe? Did you know that a big part of our active Facebook group members consists of Europeans? Probably not. Now you do. Just guess who's (along with my friend's) invitations they followed and who founded the group :p :lol:.

    My Bring Back Janeway connected posts in other boards are mostly only made for informing other people and include links. The people who want to join us come to our Facebook group. This are the group and Facebook for: to connect.
    There are indeed members of different Voyager forums only they are using their real names or RP names there, of course. I didn't think that I need to explain this to you. Maybe you don't know Facebook that well.

    BTW:
    I have truly neither time nor desire anymore to constantly jump around all those Star Trek boards as I did being new in fandom. So you barely will see me often posting there anyway.
    Thanks for the talk, guys, and I'm glad that I could help ;). Real life waits.
     
  3. Chuckling

    Chuckling Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Kathryn J., I realise English is not your first language but I can assure you, you were not being answered in a rude way at all and actually, you were being answered in a completely businesslike manner, even if you didn't like what was being said.

    I am glad you agree with me that being a Trek writer is a responsibility and an honor. I am sure every *Star Trek* writer understands that and they are endeavouring to fulfill the role, even if it doesn't suit what you think they should do.

    No, I did not have time to visit every section of your website nor do I desire to. Plus you are deliberately misconstruing the point of my using the Koffee Club as an example of something that has been producing Janeway materials for a very long time. i.e. long term fans have dealt with these issues many times over and come up with their own solutions.

    You can post wherever you want. i.e. your website. Like everybody else, that's your choice.

    Nobody is afraid of the Janeway fans, not even remotely. Why? Should we be? Is there something we don't know about you that we should be scared of?

    Here's reality Kathryn J. A first print run of ANY book will usually run to about 30 - 50,000 copies. They have to print at least that number in order to make back how much it costs to publish a book.

    There are many *Janeway* books already available. But the publishers don't have unlimited resources to continue publishing books just because a small section of a particular fandom wants them to. For a time, they want to try publishing books focusing on other characters and see whether they sell any better.

    There is nothing odd about any of this: That's how the publishing industry works. Nobody has a conspiracy against Janeway fans, it is just simply time to give the character a rest and work with other characters and emphasize other storylines.

    Oh and BTW, nobody really cares about who founded the Facebook group. That's been known by many; throughout your campaign. It hasn't made any difference before and isn't going to now or in the future

    The reality about whether or not the publishers and franchise want to continue writing a character are the same and no matter who wants things to be different will alter that; it won't be changed unless/until it becomes practical for them to do so.

    In the meantime, enjoy Kate's wonderful work in all her new endeavours! And watch and read what already exists containing *Captain Janeway*. Like any friendship, spending time with it and reconsidering the past will only strengthen your appreciation of what you've got.

    One more thing Kathryn J. You know how there is this theory that any *Star Trek* campaign of letters and contact will get minority groups of fans whatever they want? If they just get enough signatures and enough people joining in, the studios and franchise and TPTB will eventually give in?

    It's a myth! :vulcan:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Trek

    "...The threat of cancellation loomed during the show's second season.[11] The show's fan base, led by Bjo Trimble, conducted an unprecedented letter-writing campaign, petitioning NBC to keep the show on the air.[12] NBC renewed the show, but moved it from primetime to the "Friday night death slot", and substantially reduced its budget.[13] Roddenberry reduced his direct involvement in Star Trek before the start of the season to protest the changed timeslot, and was replaced by Fred Freiberger. The series was canceled in its third season, despite the protests of a renewed letter-writing campaign...."


    In other words, NBC may have initially "given in" but they moved the show to a bad timeslot. It was actually more of a slap in the face to the fans than actually giving them what they wanted. Admittedly, it got the show back on air but then after that, campaigns were ignored.

    Fact is, there are now so many *Star Trek* fans, each with their own version of what they want, it is not possible for everybody to be kept happy. That means the franchise has little choice but to make their own decisions, trying to find the best solution possible, even if that means minority groups are not always going to get what they want, all the time.

    As you admit Kathryn J., you are new to fandom. Enjoy what you have and look forward to whatever may come in the future! The best option is to allow the authors and writers the freedom to write whatever it is they want to and that way, everybody involved can be surprised at where in the *Star Trek* universe they take us! :bolian:


    Chuckling :lol:
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2011
  4. Relayer1

    Relayer1 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    To be frank your 'expectations' re Paramount are unrealistic - a busineses only responsibilities outside legal restrictions are to make as much profit for the boss/shareholders, and to screw the workforce over wherever possible, reducing costs. Everything else is window-dressing. You have no right (and nor do I) to expect ANYTHING will be included, or that novels will even be produced.

    I did admit that if Ms Beyer does bring Janeway back that I wouldn't be surprised if I didn't find her Janeway less annoying than the one in the show. I therefore have no strong feelings either way about her return, but you will probably find that is true of most Trek fans, and that does not add up to a whole lot of pressure for her return.
     
  5. Lynx

    Lynx Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I really hope that Janeway will be brought back to the boks. She belongs there.

    But I must admit that I've more and less given up "official" Star Trek. The books, the movies, the current direction of Star Trek, all of it has taken the wrong turn.

    I still enjoy watching episodes from Voyager, TNG, TOS and DS9 as well as re-reading some of the good, old books from that era but I find it hard to stir up any enthusiasm over the on-going projects of the current Star Trek.
     
  6. kimc

    kimc Coffee Mod Admiral

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    Actually given the downturn in the economy I'm a bit thankful to be saving some money by not having any Janeway books to buy. ;)

    Now if I could just throttle back on the shoes...
     
  7. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    In the lap of squalor I assure you.
    Rich people used to patronize artists.

    Well they still do, but nearly on the same level.

    Artist in residence, and consignments and...

    What's to stop one of us from paying someone in the fanfiction forum to write us Janeway stories to order?

    Do an American Idol Audition tender process... Get them to fight for the privilege of accepting your dosh.

    Of course then we get into ownership issues, that you bought the story, but they created the story, so shouldn't they deserve a kickback if you resell or should you get pissed if they continue to sell the story which was made to your order?

    Arghhh!
     
  8. spot_loves_data

    spot_loves_data Captain Captain

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    ^ I've seen that done with fan art on deviantart.com. Occasionally, I'll see an image of some character from a franchise with a description that says, "This piece was commissioned by..."
     
  9. AuntKate

    AuntKate Commodore Commodore

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    Damn those copyright laws! :lol:

    I'd love to see a really good author take the Voyager relaunch, include all the original crew, and write a compelling (and plausible) series of novels about them following Endgame. I personally think they would sell like hotcakes.
     
  10. Markira

    Markira Commander Red Shirt

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    This is exactly what I'd love as well. Is there a petition I can sign? :p
     
  11. Chuckling

    Chuckling Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Petition? Why bother with a petition? That won't make any difference. If you really want something there's nothing like doing it for yourself! Write away Aunt Kate and Marieka! Hop to it! Then submit it to the publishers like any other author and maybe if they see how such a series could work they might be interested. Enough time will have passed by then that they may change their mind. http://series.simonandschuster.com/Star-Trek-Voyager You could contact Simon and Schuster to see whether they accept manuscripts directly or via an agent. http://www.simonandschuster.com/ Chuckling
     
  12. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Pragmatism is anathematic to forumlife buddy.

    This is from TV.

    No idea where...

    "Have you lost weight this week?"

    "Nope. Gave up on that, when I figured out that it would be easier to change the perceptions of everyone in the world rather than do a dozen push ups in a row."

    Such thinking extends well beyond mere vain self help.
     
  13. Chuckling

    Chuckling Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    :guffaw:

    Too true, too true!

    And infommercials take it all the way to the bank.


    Chuckling :lol:
     
  14. Therin of Andor

    Therin of Andor Admiral Admiral

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    I can already tell you. Yes, you need a recognised literary agent, but you only send a proposal and a few sample chapters. You are asked not to write any more of your novel until contacted by the Pocket editor (and perhaps asked to finish the book incorporating changes that would be needed to have it pass muster with CBS Consumer Products). But this novel is more like a job application, to get you noticed among the hundreds of other new applicants - and then, if you are selected to pitch, it is more likely that the editor will commission a whole new novel with you, rather than the one you suggested with your first manuscript.

    You novel should be set squarely within the canonical series you are writing for: ie. a "typical", self-contained Voyager episode. Not a sequel or prequel and not a crossover with other TV series or ST novels/comics. Any new version of a post-Relaunch story would go straight to the Reject pile. (Save that idea for if you get to pitch.) This process is a job interview. If you don't follow the directions, you are seemingly suggesting that you won't play by the boss's rules on future assignments.

    When John Ordover was on the editorial staff at Pocket, he also used to say that new writers who already had two original (ie. non Star Trek) science fiction novel sales under their belt were more likely to impress him. They had already proven to him that they had the stamina to finish a whole novel, create original characters, write in the genre and meet deadlines.

    The odds are astronomical. There are only 12 slots a year and most of these go to well established, professional writers who are also well established as reliable ST authors with the Pocket staff.
     
  15. Chuckling

    Chuckling Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Welcome to reality!

    You are so right. When people make demands about what "needs" to be written they are forgetting that they are asking others to put their incomes on the line. They are absolutely certain their interest in something will naturally indicate the interests of the rest of the world! Instead of realising the publishers and authors have the actual figures and KNOW whether there is interest or not and are making the necessary financial decisions required.

    A famous jazz musician I knew once told me that he would get audience members coming to him and begging him to play this, that or the other song. He'd say to them "Do you really want me to play that?" "Yes!" they'd say. "Do you really love that song?" "Yes!" they'd state. "Do you really think it needs to be played?" he'd ask. "Oh yes!" they'd claim. "Great!" he'd say. "Because I hate that song. If you want it played, you learn how to play and then you play it!"

    If Janeway books were selling, they'd be getting written and being published. As they are not (sales and figures are what count here), they are not being created.

    If people believe that market may change in the future then their best route is to start now and write for that time but you can't ask those who make their living out of writing to spend their time writing something that every indication says are not going to sell!

    Every beginning writer has to start somewhere and the reality is that involves trying to work out where the market is going to lie at the time of them finishing their work. That's the only way you are going to convince an agent or publisher to take on your work.

    Oh and BTW, you may have worked out by now that (among other things), I'm a published author of nine books.

    And the only way authors get a start is to create something they believe there is a market for and then convince an agent and publisher they are right about that!

    In other words, here is a possible market spot for somebody wanting to get their beginning. The publishers and working authors are not interested and are not going to put their time and resources into making it happen. Which creates a possible opportunity for somebody else.

    Yes it's a risky venture! Writing and being an author is risky. You may put all that time and effort into something and not have it come off at all.

    Welcome to our world!

    And BTW, not all publishers are going through Agents these days. You need to check who wants submissions directly and in what form they are asking for them. A polite inquiry letter via their website will usually find out or sometimes their websites already have instructions from them.

    Chuckling :lol:
     
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2011
  16. Therin of Andor

    Therin of Andor Admiral Admiral

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    Fully aware of that, but you specifically asked about Pocket - and they insist on a recognized literary agent. No other publisher can consider a tie-in Star Trek novel because Pocket/Gallery holds an exclusive license.

    Or "Writers' Market", if it's still a hardcopy annual book.

    But new authors don't pitch "Relaunch" type ST novels, as I explained earlier.

    No one ever said Janeway novels weren't selling. "Mosaic" and "Captain's Table: Fire Ship" are essentially solo novels about Janeway and they both sold well. But that means that Janeway's early career has been covered ("Mosaic"), and the period where she cut her hair short and lost the "bun of steel" ("Fire Ship"). But "Endgame" moved her character to the Alpha Quadrant and "Nemesis" promoted her to admiral, giving orders to Picard, so the Pocket editors mapped out what they thought was a juicy, ongoing controversy to ensure the new VOY series books got better acclaim than "Spirit Walk", the last Christie Golden duology of VOY's Relaunch. And, thus, "TNG: Before Dishonor" and "VOY: Full Circle" did something fresh and interesting. And controversy gets free publicity. Janeway was just one of numerous main characters in VOY and, as an admiral, she wasn't necessarily an essential ingredient for a return to a shipbound book series.

    BTW, Janeway is back in the Michael Martin novel based on the "ST Online" game, in a storyline that takes a different tangent that the regular novels.
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2011
  17. Chuckling

    Chuckling Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Great! Go with that then! Enjoy what's there.


    Chuckling :lol:
     
  18. Lynx

    Lynx Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Maybe I buy that Michael Martin novel.
     
  19. NeilDouglas

    NeilDouglas Cadet Newbie

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    Dear Ms. Beyer.

    I just want to pass along my thanks for writing such wonderful Voyager novels! They are just fantastic! I love them, hands down Full Circle is the best Star Trek novel I've ever read and I've read a lot. The characters leap off the page, so real, so faithful to them at their best.

    I've spent the last hour reading over the comments in this forum and like most others here I want Kathryn Janeway back some day please (and you to write her return!) because she is fantastic, a great character, I love Kate Mulgrew and I love how you write her in Full Circle.

    But I agree with you, it was not a mistake to kill her in Before Dishonor because it was gave the characters real meat to chew on, real consequences, real life. Plus it made the Borg such a good threat again, finally. Ever since Before Dishonor came out I've had few words for Peter David, something like 'You suck for killing my favourite character' I'm currently re-reading the post Nemesis novels and you know what- they are fantastic. Peter David I'm sorry to you, you made Janeway the Borg Queen! such terror! such horror! such suspense! such a great story, well written and the consequences provide such rich material I've loved reading each night.

    The Voyager fleet was genius. Voyager has a purpose. Must say I didn't care for the first 4 post series Voyager novels all that much. Didn't think Janeway as an admiral in Nemesis was great either-that should have been Admiral Alynna Nechayev. But I love your books.

    I've got my brother hooked on Full Circle, he was not a reader at all, but loved Star Trek. Now he's onto Unworthy.

    Your books are like a continuation of Star Trek Voyager the series at it's finest. It's new Star Trek! This is all to convey to you Ms. Beyer how much I love your work and thank you for your work. Please keep writing Voyager and I hope Pocket Books realise how good you are and keep you around. Do please bring back Kathryn Janeway and put her where she belongs- on the bridge of her ship.


    Off home and soon to enjoy heading to bed because-it's book time!
     
  20. Kirsten Beyer

    Kirsten Beyer Writer Red Shirt

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    Dear Neil,

    You are most welcome and thanks so much for your kind words. Sorry it has taken me so long to respond but I've been absurdly busy of late.

    Best,
    Kirsten Beyer
     

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