Question for Supernatural fans...

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by Kestrel, May 21, 2012.

  1. Vendikarr

    Vendikarr Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    TWOP hates everything. Every other site I read Ruby 1.0 was loved.

    Whenever I think of TWOP, I am reminded of Obi Wan describing Mos Eisley... "a "wretched hive of scum and villainy."
     
  2. RJDiogenes

    RJDiogenes Idealistic Cynic and Canon Champion Premium Member

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    I guess that's why they call themselves "Television Without Pity" and not "Television Shangri-La." :rommie:
     
  3. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Has Kansas, the band not the state, ever expressed an opinion about this TV show?
     
  4. mswood

    mswood Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    First, the show isn't the show to have a large sustained cast. Its a dangerous world and the characters have a high death rate. But they have still created several female characters that worked. Some were intended to be one offs, some were used and killed to show the nature of the business and some weren't available for work when the writers wanted to use the characters (the reason Missouri wasn't a regular, and why Ellen wasn't used in season three).

    As for the producers writing out Jo do to fan reaction, I think thats highly unlikely. As by the time the fans got to see Jo, the writers we already working past the point Jo was basically written off.

    It took very little time (after seeing dailies and final edits) for the producers to see that certain aspects of what they created weren't working. That includes the Roadhouse, the psychic kids (meant to consume far more time and last much longer).

    As for Jo herself, I just didn't buy the actress in the role, until Born Under a Bad Sign. From the point to the her last appearance I have nothing but positives to say about the character. And the character always maintained her attraction to Dean.

    As for SPN's audience. It has long been stated by many, many people to have a larger female fan base. That really isn't accurate. It has a vocal female fan base, but they aren't the majority of the shows audience.

    Which in and of itself is rather odd, as almost all scripted network shows have a larger female audience (women watch more non sports then men). But SPN through its run on the CW (and even later with DVR results) has a statistically even breakdown 50.6% male/ 49.4% female.

    Even when it aired after VD where its same day audience was significantly female its DVR audience balanced it out and was primarily male.

    And the show did absolutely indeed to keep using Ellen after season two, but with the studio mandated introduction of Bela, the writers strike, and the actress being unavailable during the times the writers were interested in using her, killed it. By the time season 4 came about, enough time and having much more focused stories with specific cast needs (less hunters for example), keep her off the show.
     
  5. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I just finished season 3.

    I know why Jared would panic, but what's Sams' great aversion to Gilmore Girls?

    Y'know when they're taking the studio tour beginning of season 3 and the tour girl steering the cart said that were going to drive through Stars Hallow next?

    The lad looked like someone shat on his wheetie brix.
     
  6. hyzmarca

    hyzmarca Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    That's the terrible secret of how he really paid for four years of college. He played Dean Forrester on the Gilmore Girls.
     
  7. Kestrel

    Kestrel Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Just finished Season 2 myself, but it'll probably be awhile before I start S3 (just because I've got other stuff I mean to watch next). Turns out I'd actually seen a decent amount of the back half first-run; at some point I'd checked the show out and followed it off and on for a bit. Crossroad Blues, Playthings, Nightshifter, Houses of the Holy, Tall Tales, Roadkill, Holywood Babylon, and All Hell Breaks Loose Part 2, to be specific. So that's 8 of the 22. Somehow I had thought I'd seen the show a bit later, but obviously wrong about that, haha. Also a lot of things make more sense in context now, obviously. ;)

    I did kinda think it was cheap that they just blew up/burned down the Roadhouse entirely off-screen, but it was a nice twist to find I'll grant. Just... cheap. :p

    Is there another tour of the studio at the start of Season 3? Cause the "Gilmore Girls" reference was in "Hollywood Babylon." It was a nice nod to Padalecki's earlier career. :lol:
     
  8. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    A few seasons later they break through the fourth wall into the Supernatural set of the TV show we watch, then have to pretend to be Jarod and Jenson while still saving the day, while avoiding Misha Collins who is tweeting everything they say.

    Season 3 is only 16 episodes long.

    Writers strike.

    The road house was barely in 5 episodes.

    The Winchesters just talked about it a lot.
     
  9. Kestrel

    Kestrel Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Well, I'm now at the end of Season 3, but not sure I want to continue tbh. Oh, the Dean stuff was good and I know it'll turn out and provide good drama, and Sam going darker is interesting, but Bela's fate left me feeling... really uneasy, considering what we learn about her childhood in that same episode. Mean-spirited, I guess is the term that comes to mind. I went ahead and spoiled myself for the show to see if she comes back or we get followup, and shock of all shocks
    is evil all along too.

    I dunno, should I keep going? I'm not one that often complains about these things, but "rape as backstory means you're going to hell" is a bit icky.
     
  10. Dream

    Dream Admiral Admiral

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    Bela didn't go to hell because she was raped. She went to hell because she made a deal with a demon to get her parents murdered. Even in real life. hiring a hitman to murder anyone for whatever reason that would get that person in prison.

    I'm very surprised you are such fan of the character. She was mostly disliked by the fanbase because every time she appeared she made the Winchester boys look like idiots.

    In this show there are rarely any happy endings for supporting characters. This is something you need to keep in mind.

    If you have made it all the way to the end of season 3, you should at least check out season 4. Many fans consider season 4 to be the best season of the series. It would be a shame if you stopped watching before seeing that yourself.
     
  11. Kestrel

    Kestrel Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Yeah, I was exaggerating I admit. But of all the reasons to make a deal with a demon, hers was... pretty understandable really. And the cold-bloodedness of Dean to her at the end compared with what the audience knows leaves me wondering how exactly her fate is meant to be taken. I dunno, it just left a bad taste in my mouth.

    It's not that I'm a massive fan of the character, though I liked her overall in a Quark way (and really, like Ruby never made the Winchesters look like idiots?) and would've been sad to see her go matter what. On its own it might not bother me as much, but combined with my OP and what I know will become of Ruby...

    I'll probably come back and continue after awhile I guess.
     
  12. hyzmarca

    hyzmarca Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Bella made all the wrong decisions, particularly in the end when she stole the Colt to trade for her soul instead of doing the sensible thing and working with the Winchesters to put a bullet in Lillith's heart.

    The demon deal was never the problem. If she just asked Sam and Dean would have done everything in their power to save her. The point is that she didn't ask. She repeatedly betrayed them and eventually stole their greatest weapon against the demons to deliver it to their greatest enemy.

    And that betrayal was in its own way responsible for the apocalypse. It was one in a long list of necessary steps to put everything in place. Otherwise Lillith would have died in No Rest for the Wicked or earlier and Lucifer would have never been freed. In the end she's happy to throw the whole world under a bus for a chance to save her own skin on her own terms instead of simply coming clean and admitting that she needs help.

    Dean is very protective of his family, and can be very bitter towards people who betray them, so that shouldn't be a surprise, either.

    It's meant to be a tragedy. She was a kid who didn't understand the consequences of her actions when she made the deal. But demons don't give a crap if you're a kid or not. They're going to manipulate you to get what they want. The tragedy is compounded by Bella's later actions, which she is certainly responsible for, and which ultimately led to Dean's death and Lucifer's freedom.

    Ruby, on the other hand, is actually deserving of sympathy. She's a true believer. She actually thinks that she's doing the right thing, that Lucifer is a just and loving god who will create a paradise on Earth where demons and humans will join hands and sing and all that other crap. No more horrific torture in hell, just a perfect world for everyone.

    And by season four she truly loves Sam and thinks that her manipulations are actually in his best interests. She's making huge personal sacrifices for what she believes is the greater good. Unfortunately, she's wrong and Lucifer is a giant asshole who hates both demons and humans.

    She's also greatly overestimating how happy Sam would be to be exalted by a fallen archangel and how easily he would come around to her point of view. She has an unrealistic vision of living happily ever after with Sam, Lucifer, perhaps a couple of kids, and a puppy and that's what bites her in the ass at the end.
     
  13. Dorian Thompson

    Dorian Thompson Admiral Admiral

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    I preferred Cassidy in the role, but I grew to appreciate Cortese in the part of Ruby towards the end. Padalecki grew to appreciate her, too. :devil:That's why there's a little Thomas Colton Padalecki running around now.
     
  14. Kestrel

    Kestrel Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Good analysis, thanks. Still not thrilled about it metatextually, but it helps a lot. :techman:
     
  15. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I just tried to watch Young MaGyver.

    There but for the grace of god.
     

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