Quantum of Solace - Grading & Discussion

Discussion in 'TV & Media' started by Agent Richard07, Oct 27, 2008.

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Grade the movie...

  1. Excellent

    22.3%
  2. Above Average

    41.7%
  3. Average

    23.0%
  4. Below Average

    8.6%
  5. Poor

    4.3%
  1. RoJoHen

    RoJoHen Awesome Premium Member

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    Correct. We were just supposed to think he was.
     
  2. Good Will Riker

    Good Will Riker Admiral

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    Then, what was up with Mathis giving away the secret to Le Chiffre a warning that James Bond knew of his "poker tell" thus prompting Le Chiffre to signal a "false tell" towards Bond almost costing MI6 the game?

    Also, what was that stuff that Mathis poured into Bond's water cup in Casino Royale if it wasn't poison?

    However Mathis was presented in Quantum of Solace, it is clear by all on screen evidence that he was clearly a villain in Casino Royale.

    As far as the character of Mathis is concerned, it sounds awful like a ret-con to me by the writers in Quantum of Solace.
     
  3. RoJoHen

    RoJoHen Awesome Premium Member

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    I was fine with Mathis in QoS. I was not fine with his random death.
     
  4. Good Will Riker

    Good Will Riker Admiral

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    The character of Mathis reminds me of Damar from DS9.

    He turned out to be a villian (Going so far as shooting an unarmed Ziyal in the back), but redeemed himself in the end (By helping to liberate a Dominion-occupied Cardassia).
     
  5. Indysolo

    Indysolo Commodore Commodore

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    Again, it was Vesper.

    Probably some medicine. It was a little bit of mis-direction on the film makers part, to make you think it was Mathis and not Vesper.

    No, it was Vesper. Le Chiffre and Vesper were framing Mathis.

    Neil
     
  6. Lonemagpie

    Lonemagpie Writer Admiral

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    He didn't. We don't see anyone tell Le Chiffre, but the two people Bond tells are Vesper and Mathis, and Bond merely assumes that Mathis passed it on because (at that point) he couldn't imagine Vesper having done it.

    Booze I presume - it was the girl in Le Chiffre's entourage who poisoned Bond's martini

    No. The only evidence we have for it is Le Chiffre claiming that this is the case ("Your friend Mathis, is *my* friend Mathis"), and he's not exactly a reliable source of information!
     
  7. Indysolo

    Indysolo Commodore Commodore

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    When Bond is at the hospital and talking to Mathis, Mathis pours some powder into a glass of water. But since Bond is recuperating at that point, medicine at a hospital isn't out of the question. And since the movie wants us to think Mathis is the villain, the scene has a sinister flavor to it. At the end M says Mathis wasn't involved, but Bond doesn't believe it. But it's clear that Mathis was on Bond's side all along. QoS only reiterates that.

    Neil
     
  8. Lonemagpie

    Lonemagpie Writer Admiral

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    Oh, that bit.

    Yeah, it's presumably some sort of medicine - it's just Bond who thinks it might be something sinister because he's been told Mathis is bad (by Le Chiffre) and Vesper hasn't nicked all the cash yet...
     
  9. Good Will Riker

    Good Will Riker Admiral

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    ^^^

    I will have to go back and rewatch Casino Royale on DVD to confirm this.

    But, Le Chiffre's "Your friend Mathis is my friend Mathis" line as well as the suspicious powder inside the cup Mathis offers to James Bond is quite telling, eventhough M says otherwise at the end.
     
  10. RoJoHen

    RoJoHen Awesome Premium Member

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    This is making me want to rewatch Casino Royale as well.
     
  11. Indysolo

    Indysolo Commodore Commodore

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    Le Chiffre said that so Bond would trust Vesper and not an actual ally. The powder is only suspicious because Bond doesn't trust Mathis at that point.

    Neil
     
  12. MeanJoePhaser

    MeanJoePhaser Admiral

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    At least until the next movie where it's revealed Mathis is like the Blofeld of Quantum and faked his death in QoS.
     
  13. CorporalClegg

    CorporalClegg Admiral Admiral

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    Here's an idea:

    Read the fucking book. :rolleyes:
     
  14. CaptJimboJones

    CaptJimboJones Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Actually, this proves his original point. Tracy was killed at the very end of OHMSS, so we had about three seconds of a grieving Bond then the credits rolled. The next movie, it was as if Tracy never existed. And she was utterly forgotten throughout the rest of the series, with the very occasional nod (Roger Moore visiting her grave once, and one reference by Felix Leighter in LTK that Bond was "married once, a long time ago.") There were almost no consequences to Bond having lost his bride in such a brutal and violent way.

    Fleming treated it quite different in the novels, with Bond being utterly shattered and unable to work at the beginning of the next book (You Only Live Twice), and M nearly firing him because of his indifference to the job. He kills Blofeld to avenge Tracy's death, but the novel ends with him living with Kissy Suzuki as an amnesiac who has completely forgotten his life - Fleming's hint that he has completely buried his memories so he can live without the devastating memory of Tracy's assassination.

    The consequences in the novel were extremely significant, but almost nonexistant in the film series. The death of Vesper in the film version of CR and its impact on the QoS movie is much closer to how Fleming treated Tracy's death in the OHMSS and YOLT novels.
     
  15. Broccoli

    Broccoli Vice Admiral Admiral

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    CR keeps it ambiguous whether or not Mathis was a baddie or not. At the end of the movie, the conversation between Bond and M goes along these lines:

    M: At least this clears Mathis.
    Bond: No.
    M: No?
    Bond: It just proves that she's guilty; not that he's innocent. It could have been a double blind.

    They leave Mathis's intentions open, although several things in the movie suggest he really was with the baddies (although the alka seltzer he gave to Bond never really made me think he was giving it to him for nefarious purposes - that wouldn't make sense to kill Bond with the bad guys still needed the damn passcode [plus Vesper's deal]).

    QoS shows that Mathis was innocent all along clearing up the ambiguity from CR.
     
  16. trevanian

    trevanian Rear Admiral

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    Here's a BETTER idea: you read the fuckin' books, and see that Mathis never dies in any of them.
     
  17. trevanian

    trevanian Rear Admiral

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    Well, the DAF PTS is about him getting revenge, though it isn't specific. What I found interesting in an old issue of BONDAGE is that a writer who was on the DAF set leafed through the script and talked to the director and was told the Bond/2Blofeld scene in mid-film (in the WW apt) was going to include a pointed and specific reference to the death of Tracy. It clearly is not in the film, but you can see Connery registering some emotion toward the end of the scene, almost like a kid going to bed w/o supper, so maybe more was shot and the stuff was snipped.
     
  18. trevanian

    trevanian Rear Admiral

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    Wouldn't happen, guy, Clive Owen would wipe the floor with Craig, who is so short he probably couldn't even reach the other guy with a roundhouse.
     
  19. Timby

    Timby LIKE LIGHTNIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIING Administrator

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    In early cuts of the movie, at the very end, Bond killed White and then introduced himself to Guy Haines (the advisor to the Prime Minister mentioned earlier in the movie) at his estate. That was then followed by the gunbarrel sequence and credits.
     
  20. trevanian

    trevanian Rear Admiral

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    Blofeld was introduced in the book of THUNDERBALL, which is the novel taken from the unmade McClory film, so McClory had EVERY right to SPECTRE and Blofeld.