Quality declination?

Discussion in 'The Next Generation' started by JesterFace, Jul 11, 2014.

  1. JesterFace

    JesterFace Captain Captain

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    ...opinions opinions...

    Anyway, I wanted to know the overall feeling of TNG that you have.

    After the 2 first, honestly weak, seasons where the show was finding it's form, I think the strongest point was seasons 3 & 4. Season 5 onwards the quality declined... there were not as many really good episodes, season 7 being the weakest from the last 3 after season 4. There was a certain "feeling" during third, fourth and maybe some parts of fifth season... but after that, it was downhill.

    Any thoughts?

    ...opinions opinions...

    Still, let there be no doubts, TNG is still my favorite show of all time.
     
  2. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I thought it steadily declined after season two.
     
  3. Lance

    Lance Commodore Commodore

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    While there was/is a fan consensus..... 1 generally poor, 2 better, 3-5 top of its game, 6 and 7 a declining property..... personally I have personal opinions that run contrary to at least some of that. I like both Seasons 1 & 2, but in particular the second season where I really felt the show found its feet and there were a string of truly awesome stories heralding a growing confidence but still keeping something of Season 1's adherence of a TOS-like style. I like both Seasons 1 & 2. :)

    Season 3 I'm half/half about. I see why its so acclaimed, but I also find the new style a bit less 'interesting' than Seasons 1 and 2, less exciting, more talky, whatever. Just my personal opinion. I'm less keen on it than I am Seasons 1 and 2. :shifty:

    4-6 I do like generally, but they suffer from some of the same problems as I mention for Season 3. But Season 7, I **do** feel the show was tired and fast running out of new things to do. On that I remain completely convinced. Season 7 is mostly lacklustre IMO (unfortunately).

    Realistically, both Seasons 6 and 7 shows definite signs of tiredness in places, not surprising as the team was being split to work on DS9/VOY/movies. The more you spread the jelly on the surface of your bread, the less consistency it will have as a whole. ;)
     
  4. JesterFace

    JesterFace Captain Captain

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    So there are people that like those first two seasons? The second I can understand, but 1st................... maybe I've missed something.
     
  5. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I think the 1st season of TNG is the best of the modern TV series (1987-2005).
     
  6. Lance

    Lance Commodore Commodore

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    I appreciate the ambition and open nature of the first season. It felt like it could go anywhere and do anything, it wasn't set in stone like later seasons would be. In many very important ways I find I like a lot of TV shows in their first year before they "find their feet" a lot more, even though they gain confidence and 'subjectively' improve as they go on, but hand-in-hand with that they also lose some of their early edge. TNG is one such show, its much 'edgier' in Seasons 1 & 2. Buffy the Vampire Slayer was another one where I really dig the first season but found *everything* that came later (after the show settled into a formula) a bit of a drag to be honest. I know that isn't the fan consensus though.
     
  7. LOKAI of CHERON

    LOKAI of CHERON Commodore Commodore

    + 1.
     
  8. Lance

    Lance Commodore Commodore

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    Well here we are, seven posts into the thread and all three of us who have replied so far are big fans of the first season over the remaining six! :techman:

    Someone's gonna come on here in a minute and bust our bubble, though. I don't doubt that BillJ, Lokai of Cheron are myself are all very much in a minority on this issue. :( But who cares, hey? At least we know what *we* like! :)
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2014
  9. LOKAI of CHERON

    LOKAI of CHERON Commodore Commodore

    Cards on the table for me, Lance. My "desert island Trek" would be TOS without having to even think about it. TNG had a distinctly TOS-like vibe going down in the first two seasons - while simultaneously bringing enough of a fresh spin as to be interesting in its own right.

    Honestly, I would have loved seven seasons of that.
     
  10. junkdata

    junkdata Lieutenant Commander

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    I watched them in Britain, where they were often knocked out seemingly out of sequence. Outside of special episodes, I honestly didnt give a s___. Episodic tv is out moded for a lot of reasons, but rather like the simpsons, TNG promised quality and thought provoking tv as well as escapism and entertainment, as soon as that voice over came on.

    That was the cool thing about TNG. There were a few shows like that at the time (remember it was probably shown long after it was originally seen in the states), X files, Simpsons, TNG, are a few that come to mind. It was episodic tv at its best. One hour commitment, and the promise of quality every single time.
     
  11. Last Redshirt

    Last Redshirt Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    I wasn't a fan of the first two seasons, as it felt like TOS scripts twenty years too late. Don't get me wrong, there were some really good episodes, like Datalore, Heart of Glory, The Measure of a Man, and A Matter of Honor, but there were also some pretty bad ones, like Code of Honor and Up the Long Ladder.

    Quality really picked itself up at season 3 and continued to go up until about season 5, where it plateaued with season 6 at decent quality. In the span of 3-6, we had the best episodes of TNG, with Yesterday's Enterprise, The Best of Both Worlds, The Inner Light, Relics, and Chain of Command, just to name a few.

    Season 7 was pretty weak, where the writers just seemed to be losing ideas for what to write, and just tossing in whatever seemed good. Still had some strong moments with Lower Decks, Parallels, and All Good Things, though.
     
  12. Lance

    Lance Commodore Commodore

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    I'm the strongest fan of the second season. I think it had an added confidence in itself that was obviously missing in the first season, but it hadn't abandoned the feeling of TOS. Some of the later seasons in my view certainly have their moments, but there's a general stuffiness to proceedings that I never felt was true in Seasons 1 & 2. And like I said before, I really like the free-flowing nature of those early seasons. It still felt to me like they would be willing to try anything, and stuff like "The Royale" (which I regularly see being shit-canned on Trek review sites) I would rate as personal favorites.

    "To each their own", of course. :)
     
  13. LOKAI of CHERON

    LOKAI of CHERON Commodore Commodore

    I still enjoy TNG 3-7 - I'm picking up the BD's as they're released.

    But S3 marked the start of what I refer to as "creeping blandness". The truly horrible "muzak" prevalent from late S4, over bright lighting on the ENT sets, "sterilisation" of the characters somewhat etc.
     
  14. BillJ

    BillJ Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    This sums up my feelings. :techman:
     
  15. JirinPanthosa

    JirinPanthosa Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I agree season 7 was weak but I think seasons 5-6 were every bit as good as 3-4. Just that was the period the show was gradually moving away from 'Adventure way out on the frontier' and more toward 'Character drama and ethical debate'.
     
  16. varek

    varek Commander Red Shirt

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    I agree. I thought Season 7 had some good episodes in it.
     
  17. Isolinear

    Isolinear Commander Red Shirt

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    Sure, season 7 had fewer standout episodes, but it was still quite good nonetheless. (except Sub Rosa of course :devil:)
    Some of my favorite TNG episodes are from this season: Phantasms, Parallels, Homeward, Thine Own Self (:drool:), Masks and of course All Good Things. Even Genesis is a guilty pleasure of mine.

    Season 1 is almost a different show. A bit campy. Season 2 is obviously a transitional season. Are the later seasons bland? Maybe in a soap opera, talking heads kind of way.... but I prefer them because of the better stories.
     
  18. Makarov

    Makarov Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Eh I don't know. Season 6 seems almost as good as season 3 to me... yeah it has Time's Arrow which I hate but it makes up for it with Chain of Command and Birthright. I really enjoy season 2 as well. Once it gets to season 4 it feels a little more bland but I'm not sure I'd call it a drop in quality.

    So I guess I'd say it got better and better until season 4 and then 5 & 6 stay at that level. Been a while since I've seen season 7 so I can't comment on it yet.
     
  19. Salinga

    Salinga Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I think the problem was the schedule of 26 episodes, mostly single parter, plus the development of DS9. It just too much to keep the creativity flowing. In the end the writers had to fall back into too much formulars and technobabble solutions to be on schedule for filming. TNG would have been so much better with only around 10 to 16 stories per season, containing some two to three parters, without DS9. I think even 9 high quality seasons would have come out like that.

    While I dont like ENT in general, the story telling format of season 4 with lots of three parters I like very much for Star Trek. It allows to explore a story much deeper and have more variation in a season since the need for bottle shows is less (the filming set costs for a story do span over two to three episodes instead of one).
     
  20. Seven of Five

    Seven of Five Commodore Commodore

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    I think seasons three and four are the show's high point. I personally prefer S3 a bit more. Season five saw a little decline, that continued into season six. By season seven though, they were scraping the barrel, which, as Salinga points out, was probably due to many things. Creative burnout was certainly one of the reasons, but the producers were gearing up for the start of Voyager, Generations had a fixed release date, and of course DS9 was already up and running.

    I find that season one treads water whilst it finds its feet, though the last third of it shows good improvement. Season two showed another improvement.