PROMETHEUS - Grade and Discuss

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by Crom!, May 30, 2012.

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Prometheus - Poll

Poll closed May 30, 2013.
  1. A +

    6.9%
  2. A

    11.6%
  3. A -

    13.8%
  4. B +

    18.5%
  5. B

    14.2%
  6. B -

    9.1%
  7. C +

    8.2%
  8. C

    3.4%
  9. C -

    6.5%
  10. D

    5.2%
  11. F

    2.6%
  1. Pauln6

    Pauln6 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Reluctantly, I agree. I enjoyed te movie but I'm disappointed that so many people are so willing to overlook its very obvious flaws and give it a big thumbs up. But I think it very much depends on what expectations you went in with. I have hugely enjoyed some horrendously schlocky movies because I accepted them for what they were. I can overlook about a third of Star Wars' flaws on the basis that it is a franchise for children but I lament some of the elements of Trek 09 that moved it further from what TOS (at its best) used to be and closer to being a franchise for children. I was disappointed in Prometheus because I thought it was an opportunity to move the Alien universe franchise away from the recent schlocky AvP style movies and back towards something deeper, creepier, and scarier. On that score, it failed miserably unfortunately.
     
  2. Trekker4747

    Trekker4747 Boldly going... Premium Member

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    Because he saw the movie thus making him "the audience."
     
  3. Mach5

    Mach5 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Holy shit, did I just quote a guy that called both himself and ME stupid? :wtf:

    BTW, most LOST fans I met (I mean the ones who stuck with the show to the bitter end, and still ferociously defend it) did strike me as pretty stupid, I must admit.

    This being said, Damon Lindelof is a hack, a douche and an idiot. IMHO, of course.
     
  4. Sysyphyx

    Sysyphyx Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    Big LOST fan here, but l don't think l'm stupid (my mommy used to tell me l was a smart boy:p). Anyhoo, at least with LOST Lindelof and the other writers of the show gave us enough information to draw some of our own conclusions concerning the mysteries of the island. The only real mystery in Prometheus is why there are so many gaping plot holes.
     
  5. Mach5

    Mach5 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I think that's the main issue The Internet has with Lindelof. "I'll just throw shit in, and you make your own damn conclusions". :D

    Anyway, seeing how many fanboys went suicidal after that finale, I'm glad I gave up on Lost after two seasons.

    But I must admit, the show had it's allure at first. It really did. It just didn't feel like it was going anywhere. The mysteries all felt so... Random and... I don't know, it was just a mess.
     
  6. Sysyphyx

    Sysyphyx Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    l was one those who stuck with the show through thick and thin, and although it kept me glued to my seat with anticipation for most of those six years, l felt the finale was a total cop-out. l still believe Lindelof and the others had dug themselves so deep into a hole, there was no way to get out.

    I LOVE the show, but HATED the finale...almost as much as l hate Prometheus.
     
  7. Warped9

    Warped9 Admiral Admiral

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    I know and am friends with quite a few people who like things I don't like and vice versa. I certainly don't think they're stupid even if I can't personally fathom some of their tastes. And they don't seem to think I'm stupid either.

    Alien has become something of a classic and I, too, love the film, but it really isn't a deep movie. Someone can project all sorts of things into a film, things that aren't really there or weren't put there intentionally by the filmmaker.

    Alien is basically a '50's "scary monster" flick that works because it's well crafted, but it really isn't any deeper than that. Sometimes a story is just a story without deeper aspirations no matter how polished and smartly crafted it is.


    I care nothing for the Transformer movies or any number of other flicks that have been popular even as I know people who have liked those films. I don't think of them as stupid. I wasn't much impressed by Avatar even though I know people who loved it. I loathe ST09 even though I know folks who liked it... Okay, that last one is a touchy subject :lol: but I still won't call those people stupid.
     
  8. Mach5

    Mach5 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Alien is by no means a deep movie. Prometheus, however, started off as an ambitious, intelligent, plot-driven sci-fi. And then, at some point, all traces of intelligence just evaporated and the movie turned into a dumb syfy horror flick.

    It was like watching 2001 for about half an hour, than suddenly switching to The Thing.

    The visuals and the music are phenomenal, but they simply cannot redeem the terrible writing.
     
  9. TremblingBluStar

    TremblingBluStar Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I'm with you there. I watched the show religiously through the first and second seasons. When they got to the third season, the other island, and the reveal that The Others aren't a mysterious group beyond our comprehension, but hippies living on the other side of the island in a condo village out in the middle of nowhere... that made me realize the writers really had no plan or even a clue where the show was going.

    Ultimately that proved to be right. I guess that is where Prometheus fans and Lost fans have something in common. Fans of Lost are able to forgive the show's meandering plot and lack of focus because they love the characters, the setting, or the atmosphere enough to find enjoyment despite the show's flaws.

    I'm able to find enjoyment in Prometheus despite the movie's flaws because I loved the atmosphere, the setting, and a few of the characters. I have no personal gripe against Lindolf, even though the interview posted earlier does make him sound like a rather whiney douche. However, I am a huge fan of Ridley Scott, and I applaud his effort to flesh out some of the unanswered questions from the first Alien film.
     
  10. Wereghost

    Wereghost Part-time poltergeist Rear Admiral

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    Here's a "fan-made" Prometheus training video :):

    [yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yFYmv6t_Xyg&sns=em[/yt]
     
  11. sonak

    sonak Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Some friends tried to get me into "Lost," but I didn't care for it. From what I'm reading here, it seems that I saved myself some time and effort.
     
  12. Kegg

    Kegg Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Finally got around to seeing this and really liked it by and large. Space movies like this aren't that common in the cinemas these days (last comparable film I went to was Avatar), and the original Alien is one of my favourite films. I watch it every Halloween.

    It's true that Prometheus is always conscious of the fact that the movie is banking on its relationship to Alien - it has many of the same visual cues, a plot that moves in a similar direction, scare moments that toy with or build on some of the most inspired sequences in the original film - but, again, I love the heck out of that movie so this kind of fidelity did not get on my bad side.

    And the way the film built on the HR Giger designed alien spaceship with those new rooms and controls was sweet. Some strong performances too - Fassbender's every bit as good as Holm as the morally ambivalent android.

    Since I've read they hoped to make sequels to Prometheus, I'd assume that the vagueness was deliberate.

    Whether such vagueness being deliberate constitutes poor scriptwriting regardless is of course another question.
    It's pretty obvious why the Engineers want to kill humanity- this is a horror movie. You don't sideline your third act into a scene of serene contact with an alien lifeform that could have come out of let's say, Contact.

    The Engineers are aliens, so they're either dead aliens for whom their manner of death is scary and hints at what's in store for the human characters (basically the function they served in the original Alien, and for most of this film - the guy who poisoned himself for whatever reason, the dead alien crew, etc.) or they themselves are a menace. Since one of them survived, he had to serve that function to keep the film within its genre.

    The problem obviously is as perfect sense this makes as a genre device, we have no idea why an alien race would create a smaller version of themselves on a far off world, and then leave them there for a few billion years patiently waiting for them to connect a series of clues after developing space travel that would allow them to find their way to their military lab where they can then kill them.

    And this is ignoring the fact that it looks like before the lab personnel were all killed off, the Engineers were planning to nuke Earth anyway, and I'm not even bothering trying to figure out where the guy who killed himself fit in. Gah.

    But hey. If they're making a sequel, I'm definitely onboard.

    The home planet of the engineers. Some kind of massive surreal Giger-ish smoggy disgusting bizarre megalopolis, probably with I don't know, the entire planet dead and having our survivors wander around listlessly in the giant bio-buildings... or whatever. Dead civilizations, always fun in sci-fi.

    Well, and, obviously, getting some answers to the questions in Prometheus would be nice.

    Suggested title for sequel: Epimetheus. You're welcome, Ridley Scott.
     
  13. Mr Light

    Mr Light Admiral Admiral

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    I just got back from seeing it a second time. It was very interesting to watch it again, knowing all the theories and the complaints going in.

    I still enjoyed it a second time around. And I'm still not bothered by all the nitpicks.

    This was not a professional scientific expedition. It was a corporate mission and they didn't care at all about scientific method. The two lead scientists were crackpot alien astronaut theorists that nobody respected. The geologist was a pothead (I forgot that part, lol). The other two scientists signed onto a two year expedition without knowing what the hell it was about; clearly they were the dregs of their respective fields.

    I like the Sumerian thing that was posited earlier. There were two alien groups, the gods and the angels. The Engineers are the angels. The gods were the shriveled old aliens seen in the opening deleted scene. The angels rebelled against the gods, using the black goo bioweapon to kill them, but of course it got out of control and wiped them out as well. Since the angels were forced to sacrifice themselves to create life on other worlds, they now wish to exterminate those planets and remake them into their own worlds to inhabit.
     
  14. Professor Zoom

    Professor Zoom Vice Admiral Admiral

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    So... he's willing to spend a trillion dollars and hires the "dregs" of the scientific community? Because a real scientist couldn't be found? This isn't a nitpick, it's believably.
     
  15. Warped9

    Warped9 Admiral Admiral

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    This was the impression I got pretty much as things started to unreel. That said while we can interpret this part of the film as such (and not unfairly) I can understand the complaints that a few lines of dialogue could have clarified this idea.

    Or they wanted to eradicate all traces of what they had unlashed lest it continue to turn on them. If humanity is indeed a descendant or progeny of the Engineers and the black goo then they might just assume we need to be wiped out. And/or there's some other as yet unspecified reason they felt we didn't deserve to continue as a species---this a question which could be clarified in a sequel.

    On this point, though, one can legitimately quibble. Our DNA is 99% similar to chimpanzees and yet we are quite different. The film could have said more accurately that our DNA and that of the Engineers are a very close match and not identical a match. Mind you a lot of folks in the audience might not catch that, but it is a slip in the writing.
     
  16. Mr Light

    Mr Light Admiral Admiral

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    I would imagine that the black goo that makes the xenomorphs is a weaponized version of the kind used to create peaceful human life in prehistory. I find it hard to believe the exact same stuff creates mankind and also xenomorphs. Of course, Holloway's face did look similar to the dying Engineer's face in the prologue...

    Weyland only cared about finding the aliens and gaining immortality. They probably just took the other two guys in case they needed them. But who is going to sign up for a four year round trip knowing nothing about it?
     
  17. Nightowl1701

    Nightowl1701 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    No, because - if Weyland succeeds and comes back to Earth immortal, bearing solid evidence of both first contact with aliens AND the secret origin of mankind - HE wants all the credit. Having more competant/prominent scientists on board would stand in the way of that.

    That's why, among other things, Vickers ordered Shaw/Holloway to report straight back to her if they found any living aliens. "You WON'T engage them, you WON'T talk to them." It wasn't enough for this egomaniac even that he gain renewed life; he also wanted the fame and glory of being the first to personally speak with extraterrestrials. "I WILL achieve greatness - or die trying." The "dregs" would just have to settle for being to the Prometheus mission what Michael Collins was to Apollo 11.
     
  18. Professor Zoom

    Professor Zoom Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Having more competent people would stand in the way? REALLY? Cause how did it work out for him having the dregs of the scientific community? THEY RAN AWAY AT THE FIRST SIGHT OF WHAT HE WAS LOOKING FOR.

    I'm sorry... that is the silliest justification.... You don't think in the world of Alien there's a (capable) scientist who would be willing to work for a TON of money, who would sign a contract?

    You don't think the movie just might be a WEE bit better if there weren't idiots in the movie?

    If it was that important to Weyland that HE be the one to discover, why didn't he just go with a shipload of Davids? David was MUCH more capable of... well, EVERYONE... Weyland HAD the destination... Why did he need a human crew? IF it was so important that HE be the one to discover the Aliens... and not just getting a longer life.

    AND, ...Michael Collins was a fucking hero. And NOT an idiot.
     
  19. Nightowl1701

    Nightowl1701 Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Obviously there WAS - Elizabeth Shaw. (Or at least Weyland thought so.) SHE wouldn't run away, and her quest for answers would override any desire for fame and glory. Holloway, as events proved, was simply along for the ride as her boyfriend (to keep Shaw happy). He was in the same category as Millburn & Fifield = Canary in the Coal Mine/Cannon Fodder.

    Good question. Obviously Weyland wouldn't have the prejudice against robots Holloway and others displayed. Vickers, on the other hand...

    AMEN to that. :techman: But ask anybody these days under 30 who was on that mission, and you get "Neil Armstrong, Buzz Aldrin, and...uh, the other one..."
    (I really wish there was a thumbsup that didn't have the wink.)
     
  20. Violet.Phoenix

    Violet.Phoenix Commander Red Shirt

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    Saw this earlier today, and I was not disappointed.

    The opening of the movie is gorgeous, the visuals, the score, the cinematograpy; it all took my breath away. This was not the only scene with stunning visuals as well. The scenes including holographic imagery were superbly done, as well as the scenes with the alien ship.

    The plot is believeable, and I love that their attempt to answer a question about 'life' only leads to more and not really an answer. I think that there's something really fitting about this; in science there must always be a question. Without that, where is the purpose of inquiry?

    I do agree that there was a certain degree of vagueness surrounding events in the film (whatever happened to the biologist? We only see Fifield after the attack), but I get the feeling that that is meant to lead into a sequel, and with that I can live with some of it. There are still questions, but they don't bug me like other questions in other films have.

    There were some great twists as well in this; I still love the ending for that little moment after Shaw has left (and her final log entry was really moving from a scientific perspective).

    And lastly, one line that I do not think I will ever forget: "A king has his reign, and then he dies." - there's something absolutely bone-chilling about that.

    This is a great sci-fi tale that leaves some things open to speculation, others to imagination. There are some answers that I do want, but I am content to wait for sequels. To me this is great science fiction: asking questions and never stop asking them. I thoroughly enjoyed this.:)