PROMETHEUS - Grade and Discuss

Discussion in 'Science Fiction & Fantasy' started by Roshi, May 30, 2012.

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Prometheus - Poll

Poll closed May 30, 2013.
  1. A +

    6.9%
  2. A

    11.6%
  3. A -

    13.8%
  4. B +

    18.5%
  5. B

    14.2%
  6. B -

    9.1%
  7. C +

    8.2%
  8. C

    3.4%
  9. C -

    6.5%
  10. D

    5.2%
  11. F

    2.6%
  1. Locutus of Bored

    Locutus of Bored The Mod Awakens Moderator

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    I know we're ripping on the guy's script rewrite here, but to be fair, he was the co-creator/head writer of Lost, so I don't see how he could only get credit for "ruining" it (which I disagree with, even though it has many flaws that it shares with Prometheus) without also getting credit for building it up into an excellent series in the first place.
     
  2. Nightowl1701

    Nightowl1701 Captain Captain

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    And anyone who's read the shooting script for Alien knows how much changed from page to screen. That was all Ridley Scott. We have yet to see the shooting script for Prometheus, so we don't know how much Scott changed on the set or in ADR/editing (or left on the cutting room floor for the Blu-Ray). Clearly if Scott wasn't happy with Lindelof's script, he would have thrown it out and hired someone else.
     
  3. Professor Zoom

    Professor Zoom Vice Admiral Admiral

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    From what I heard, he was going to play the younger Weyland in THIS movie (ala flashbacks or other things), but things changed and he was already signed, etc, etc.
     
  4. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    ^ Or perhaps he had so much fun doing the TED 2023 viral video that they figured why let his appearance go to waste?

    [yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tvx1xr88qfM[/yt]

    I mean, why go to all the trouble of shooting that, if it (and him) wasn't intended to be used?
     
  5. PsychoPere

    PsychoPere Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I mentioned an interview that contained that tidbit of information earlier in the thread, and I just took a few minutes to track it down.

     
  6. Nightowl1701

    Nightowl1701 Captain Captain

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    Maybe Ridley's going to go back and shoot those dream sequences (or already did and cut them) for the Director's Cut?


    So far, I can only count four known sequences (and strongly suspect four more) deleted, and they don't add up to 20-30 minutes:

    1: Extended Opening (more Engineers, religious/sacrificial ritual)
    2: (suspected) Shaw and Holloway's Camp (more fully sets up the characters, esp. Holloway, leads up to Shaw breaking through to the cave)
    3: (suspected) Janek/Vickers Sex scene (yeah, RIGHT)
    4: (suspected) Aftermath (Shaw confronts/attacks Vickers in the wake of Holloway's death, then doubles over - first indication something's wrong with her)
    5: (suspected) Maternity Ward (While Weyland/Vickers have their heart-to-heart, David looks in on Shaw's "baby")
    6: Extended Fifield Attack (happens as Weyland's party leaves the ship, Shaw's the one who runs Fifield over)
    7: Extended Shaw/Engineer Fight
    8: Extended Ending (Proto-Alien gets up and leaves the lifeboat, walking out amid the wreckage of LV-223 - the first of the planet's new race...)

    Ridley could also stick the "TED2023" and "Shaw's Audition Tape" viral videos (in that order) in between 1 and 2.
     
  7. Professor Zoom

    Professor Zoom Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Meh. I can't say a director's cut is going to make a lick of difference for me.... Maybe if it's on TV some day, or streaming on Netflix... if I stumble across it, might watch it... but it won't fix the problems I had with it.
     
  8. banzaiduck

    banzaiduck Lieutenant

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    That faux TED clip is pretty much the only saving grace of all things Prometheus. That, and maybe the visual panache associated with Ridley Scott films.

    BANZAI!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
     
  9. Professor Zoom

    Professor Zoom Vice Admiral Admiral

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    And David. David was cool.
     
  10. Disruptor

    Disruptor Commodore

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    Nanotech. Goo, would've been nice if they'd let anyone have a hint of what it was or why it does what it does. But that required more pacing and exposition. But all the people in audience on the up and up of "real technology" could figure it out. (Not general audiences, in other words.)

    Instead, it's LEVIATHAN (even put it a wine bottle). It mutates things because it does. That's what's in the script. Or was that soy sauce someone spilled on a napkin?


    The cave maps, not the holo-map. Why did ancient Earth cultures have a "chart" to the space jockey version of bio-weapons facility? The only explanation I've heard that make any sense is that it was a warning (a dumb one) or a trap if humans ever got to space.

    I forget how ignorant people on SF boards are about reading deliberately obnoxious statements (like anyone really posts anything in all caps that is meant to be serious?) :p

    It seemed they almost wanted to make Charlize's character sympathetic at one point (sleeps with Idris, seemed some revulsion after burning Noomi's boyfriend), then NO, SHE HAS TO DIE, SHE'S A BITCH. Making previous scenes inconsistent. Or hell, she's just horny. Don't let the corporate ice princess fool you, fellers, they are ready to spread 'em. :techman:


    But what was her purpose again? Corporate bitch...with daddy issues. Her role could've been reduced to a corporate stooge ala Burke in ALIENS.

    There's the idea she may be some sort of synthetic. She recovers from cryosleep quickly. Later, everyone else seems sick as dogs after waking. Of course, we don't know how long she was awake before Davey sees her.

    Why did Noomi's Dr. Shaw think the engineers changed their minds about doing Earth in? The bomber pilot forgot to wake up. That's it. Dumb luck.

    I wonder if the engineers knew that Predators came along and taught humans civilization? (Ridley disliked AvP, they stole too many of his prequel ideas and used them 10 years before he did!)
     
  11. Shurik

    Shurik Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    It almost looks like she was initially written as a robot (a-la Ash in the original), and then the writer or director changed his mind, but forgot to tell the actress.
     
  12. Locutus of Bored

    Locutus of Bored The Mod Awakens Moderator

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    Even Scott's out-of-movie attempts at making the film seem profound fail to be consistent with what was actually in the film. Take the Space Jesus idea, for example...

    Why would the Engineers be moved to destroy us because of our crucifixion of their emissary Jesus? Wasn't his sacrifice for the sins of man the whole point of Jesus' death? Isn't self-sacrifice to advance humanity's development the entire basis of the Engineer's philosophy as witnessed by the beginning of the film and their temple? So why be upset by the simple fulfillment of the most basic tenet of their belief system?
     
  13. lurok

    lurok Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Meh. Even the much-vaunted visuals were so-so. The only thing I found mildly interesting was the David/Vickers/Weyland son/daughter/father stuff, and musings on soul, existence, dreams. Maybe should have waited for Blade Runner sequel.;)
     
  14. Disruptor

    Disruptor Commodore

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    [LEFT]In regards to the ending(s). It was luck the engineer pilot found Dr. Shaw in the escape ship, and luck her that the monster killed him. Because if the pilot had survived the tentacle beast, he'd have just hopped into another ship and attacked Earth.

    Also, since when do aliens emerge from dead hosts? (The pilot Sure looked dead.) Sure, it not quite the xenomorph we are used, too, but it's also something else we can (have to) explain with the biotech goop.




    [/LEFT]
     
  15. Shurik

    Shurik Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Which begs the question why didn't he just take another ship and fly away. Are there no weapons of any kind on those ships, even something small that can blast the escape pod from the air?
     
  16. Misfit Toy

    Misfit Toy Caped Trek Mod Moderator

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    No, no - the "scientists" and their disdain for actual discovery are the result of the Conservatives winning the "war on science". This also explains the rise of an evil corporate entity like Weyland.


    ;)
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2012
  17. Disruptor

    Disruptor Commodore

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    "We joined this mission to disprove things, not discover them!"

    "Look something alien. There's so much we can learn from it. Get rid of it."


    "Why are you here, Charlize?"

    "Because I want money! MONEY! MONEY! AND POWER! Also, my daddy don't wuv me."

    "How is that motivation for travelling across vast distances to an uncharted world?"

    "MONEY!"
     
  18. Roshi

    Roshi Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Dans ton cul, cherche bien...
  19. 137th Gebirg

    137th Gebirg Vice Admiral Premium Member

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    Finally saw the movie last week.
    My take was that maybe the "mission" Jesus undertook was to teach the Romans the need for self-sacrifice, with the hopes that our species may have become an advanced-enough civilization to grasp the concept. To paraphrase one of the mantras in the movie - "Every king must die" - perhaps it was hoped that whoever was serving as Caesar during that time may have been compelled to die for the Greater Good of civilization. Methinks the Engineers heavily underestimated their creations' instinct for self-preservation - a potentially unique adaptation to our species during its development on a hostile Earth - an adaptation they didn't foresee.

    My other thoughts:
    I can't remember specifically if the team, towards, the end, made the specific assumption (in-dialog) that this was a bio-weapons facility or not. I have vague recollection of this, but can't be sure. A 14-year-old boy appeared to have either a seizure or go into diabetic coma next to me and my wife in the middle of the movie, so some details are a bit fuzzy. I have no idea if he pulled out of it, but he seemed to be somewhat lucid when the EMT's came to get him out. In any case, I think the assumption (and I'm going to focus on that word - assumption) on the part of the crew and some posters here is in error - although I'm sure we were meant to think it was this way, either deliberately or through sloppy dialog and editing - in so far as the black oil could be used as a weapon, depending on how it was wielded. Remember Genesis in ST2 & 3? It was a tool built by the Federation to create life. The Klingons saw it as a biogenic weapon, capable of destroying life on whole worlds. Both viewpoints, of course, were true. The oil was used to break down the molecules of an Engineer to create life on Earth. It was also going to be used en-mass to destroy it - not because it was designed that way and hidden away on some distant moon, but because the Engineers knew of our human nature. All they would have to do is drop all those canisters on Earth, they would crack open and the oil would be programmed to our nature to destroy us. The engineers weren't afraid of it, as for them it was a tool to create life in selfless sacrifice of their own. For them, it was a sacred substance that could be used to either build or destroy - morally neutral.

    It is entirely possible that some Engineers set up this remote base so that others didn't find out about their plans. If Scott is taking from various aspects of Earth mythology, I think he's going for a mix of the Kabbalah and Indian mythology next - and starting to work with the nature of Seraphim and fallen angels. What if these Engineers who wanted to destroy us were misinterpreted in ancient times as the angels who were cast out of Paradise, jealous of our own creation as humans. The war between these angels could very well have been a civil war between the creator Engineers and the destroying Engineers, and we were just a pawn world in the greater war. The Indian Mahabharata spoke of a massive war with great weapons in ancient times. If Scott is going von Daniken on this, why not go all the way?

    I, too, am starting to think that he should have left the xenomorph connection out of all this. Let it stand on its own as an Ancient Aliens/Ancient Mythology tale. But I think the temptation to pull it back into the Alien fold of his original film was too great. I'm giving it a B+. I was trying to look deeper beyond the surface meaning of the film and definitely saw something there. I don't feel that I was as distracted by the stupidity that always shows up in the form of modern horror movie tropes, knowing there was something else there - bigger and far more significant - to focus on.
     
  20. Disruptor

    Disruptor Commodore

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    So the nature of those worms in the cannister room was inherently hostile, too?

    And goes back to what the holographic engineers were running from, what killed them? Something in their nature or another life form's nature was destructive.

    :shrug:

    Why where the cannisters in a sealed containment room that when opened made them leak, while the others were in a ship's cargo hold with no apparent signs of stasis needed?

    Assuming they are the same thing, which may be a mistake.